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Noise and gate

phil92

Inspired
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I am experiencing some pretty annoying EMI in my little guitar room.

So I experimented a bit with the input block noise gate and the gate/expander block, after I read a few people pointed out that they had more success eliminating noise using that one.

For me it's the opposite: the input block noise gate does seem to do more than just act as a gate; I get rid of more hiss and EMI.

But for a high gain patch and palm muted staccato stabs to be dead quiet in the rests I have to dial up the threshold to -30. Anything lower and there will be a short trail of noise following my muting the strings.

Does that sound reasonable?
 

chris

Legend!
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you need to eliminate the source of the noise. -30dB for a gate is very high, and your guitar probably puts out -40 or so for single notes.

that's probably not a usable situation.
 

phil92

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you need to eliminate the source of the noise. -30dB for a gate is very high, and your guitar probably puts out -40 or so for single notes.

that's probably not a usable situation.
yep, that's what I was trying: to find and eliminate the issue. But while I can trace it to a certain corner of the room being the worst, and finding a cable running down the wall, I don't know what it is, where it goes and I certainly can't remove or relocate it being a rental.

For a solo scene I can go as low as -45 or -50 and be all right. It's just the damn hard stops that leave a very short trail if I drop the threshold under -30 in the rhythm scene...
 

chris

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yep, that's what I was trying: to find and eliminate the issue. But while I can trace it to a certain corner of the room being the worst, and finding a cable running down the wall, I don't know what it is, where it goes and I certainly can't remove or relocate it being a rental.

For a solo scene I can go as low as -45 or -50 and be all right. It's just the damn hard stops that leave a very short trail if I drop the threshold under -30 in the rhythm scene...
yeah even having to go to -40 or -50 is pretty unusable.

a noise gate just gates noise. if the noise is as loud as the guitar, then you can't really do anything. you need to make the noise stop somehow or use some other plug that doesn't have the noise. that's really all you can do.
 

phil92

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yeah even having to go to -40 or -50 is pretty unusable.

a noise gate just gates noise. if the noise is as loud as the guitar, then you can't really do anything. you need to make the noise stop somehow or use some other plug that doesn't have the noise. that's really all you can do.
just to clarify; since we have a 20db offset between the II and the III, you would say that on the Axe FX II a threshold of -70 would be unusable?
 

chris

Legend!
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just to clarify; since we have a 20db offset between the II and the III, you would say that on the Axe FX II a threshold of -70 would be unusable?
I would not say that. And I think the numbers would go the other way?

At any rate, if the noise is as loud as the guitar, regardless of the number for threshold, it is practically unusable.
 

phil92

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I would not say that. And I think the numbers would go the other way?

At any rate, if the noise is as loud as the guitar, regardless of the number for threshold, it is practically unusable.
nah, looks like a threshold of -50 on the III is what would have been -70 on the II or AX8:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/noise-problems-ax8-vs-axe-fx-iii.142991/#post-1692712

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/noise-gate-settings-between-ii-and-iii.139842/#post-1658127
 

chris

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oh you said -70 on the Axe2. yeah no definitely not. i had mine set to around -80 on average, absolute highest ever was around -60 on the Axe2. i haven't looked at my input blocks on the 3 in a while. currently testing something specific so i can't check now.

i still stand by if the noise is as loud as the guitar, you can't do anything about it. set things how you want, there are no rules. only the results.
 

phil92

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oh you said -70 on the Axe2. yeah no definitely not. i had mine set to around -80 on average, absolute highest ever was around -60 on the Axe2. i haven't looked at my input blocks on the 3 in a while. currently testing something specific so i can't check now.

i still stand by if the noise is as loud as the guitar, you can't do anything about it. set things how you want, there are no rules. only the results.
yeah, I was interested in experiences and ballpark numbers because I do think -30 is quite excessive. The noise is not louder than the guitar though: I can still roll off the volume and soft single notes will push the gate open. You will hear the gate choking sustained notes, though.
Which at -45 and above seems fine.

I did try different cables and guitars (by no means budget guitars either: a JPX 6 string and a JPX 7 string mostly). The lowest noise I get when switching to any of the out of phase single coil combinations. Which in my mind confirms that it's in fact EMI.
The crunchlab does seem to have a reputation for noisiness, probably because it's asymmetrically wound...
 

∞Fractals

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Hunt down the emi ... any light dimmers around?

Any computers or monitors nearby?

As I think you mentioned, move your guitar around like an antenna to find a direction of the emi.

Flip circuit at the panel sometimes help you maybe find a source in your house but it could be a neighborhood issue.

Many try to shield their guitar, and some have great success. Ymmv.
 

vangrieg

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What is this offset you guys are talking about? -70 dB is -70 dB, isn’t it? How can setting it to -50 be the same?

I haven’t even looked at the III gate settings because the inputs in the unit are now so quiet I’m not even sure I need a gate, thankfully.

I feel truly sorry for folks with lots of EMI. Wish I had a solution, but I’m afraid there’s none, apart from hunting down the source, or changing pickups for quieter ones...
 

phil92

Inspired
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What is this offset you guys are talking about? -70 dB is -70 dB, isn’t it? How can setting it to -50 be the same?
the settings are relative to the gate input level. I believe that is where the offset comes in between the II and the III.


I haven’t even looked at the III gate settings because the inputs in the unit are now so quiet I’m not even sure I need a gate, thankfully.
the Input block has the gate activated by default. At -60 dB I believe
 

illodin

New here
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People on this forum have had success with ISP Decimator II pedal where the EMI filtering in Axe's intelligent gate has failed.
 

phil92

Inspired
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People on this forum have had success with ISP Decimator II pedal where the EMI filtering in Axe's intelligent gate has failed.
I do shy away from buying a pedal for this ATM, in particular as I tried a friend's Decimator (1) last night and the Axe III input block gate was giving me much better results.

I need to investigate whether the Decimator II is doing something radically different... ha! Maybe it could be modelled :D
 

vangrieg

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the settings are relative to the gate input level. I believe that is where the offset comes in between the II and the III.
Thanks for your reply, but I still don’t get it. What in the world is “gate input level”? If it’s input gate, why does it have level different from the input???
 
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