no complaining...just a question about "saturation"

Sounds like a guitaramp to me. Nothing strange at all.



:)

here's the settings (Schecter Hellraiser C-1 with EMG81)

FW10_settings_01.bmp


everything else at default settings

FW10_settings_02.bmp


from my year long experience with the axe this should sound very defined and heavy without being too bright.

here's what it actually sounds like:

FW10 issue

there's definitively something wrong. i hope you can hear what i am talking about,
it's like some extra fuzz like saturation/distortion is added. it's especially present in the triplets...
 
i have noticed the same thing turning my guitar volume down seems to help a lot as well as turning down the
tone control on the guitar.
 
here's the settings (Schecter Hellraiser C-1 with EMG81)

FW10 issue

there's definitively something wrong. i hope you can hear what i am talking about,
it's like some extra fuzz like saturation/distortion is added. it's especially present in the triplets...

O.k. this might be why we are experiencing the same thing. I have the EXACT same GUITAR as you. I notice even on the cleans this very high frequency coming from these pickups. Have you tried a different guitar yet?

I listened to your clip in my office speakers and I didn't notice much of a problem with your clip, so I believe the way we are monitoring can very well be to blame as is the fact that your recording is metal, mine is very clean, I made a recording myself with a clean comparison found here:


When I listen to certain amps, I hear it more on my FRFR Yamaha speakers than I do on certain PC speakers. Either way, it's not bad. I just view it as a different type than previous Firmwares. In fact on some amps, it really ads a great character (especially the cleans). The only thing about it that I don't like is the frequency is really pretty high and this makes it harder to believe it's a tube amp as they don't usually produce frequencies higher than 8k or so.

I'll play around some more with some of the other suggestions. See how it feels with a different guitar if you have one. I haven't had much time lately.
 
Sounds like a guitaramp to me. Nothing strange at all.

hmm, then all the great sounds on my favorite records must be NO guitar amps :D

:)

i have noticed the same thing turning my guitar volume down seems to help a lot as well as turning down the
tone control on the guitar.

absolutely not my direction, i really do not like to adjust my sound on the guitar, may sound strange but as it's for recording only i need a consistant tone and to keep it consistant i always have vol and tone all the way up.
my nw guitar doen't even have a tone control :D


O.k. this might be why we are experiencing the same thing. I have the EXACT same GUITAR as you. I notice even on the cleans this very high frequency coming from these pickups. Have you tried a different guitar yet?

I listened to your clip in my office speakers and I didn't notice much of a problem with your clip, so I believe the way we are monitoring can very well be to blame as is the fact that your recording is metal, mine is very clean, I made a recording myself with a clean comparison found here:


When I listen to certain amps, I hear it more on my FRFR Yamaha speakers than I do on certain PC speakers. Either way, it's not bad. I just view it as a different type than previous Firmwares. In fact on some amps, it really ads a great character (especially the cleans). The only thing about it that I don't like is the frequency is really pretty high and this makes it harder to believe it's a tube amp as they don't usually produce frequencies higher than 8k or so.

I'll play around some more with some of the other suggestions. See how it feels with a different guitar if you have one. I haven't had much time lately.


the C-1 is my only electric atm, the other is still being built, should be here in a few weeks.

i just tweaked and tweaked and found out something interesting.

i think it's not really a matter of high frequencies.

i tried sounds with lots of highs and presence but they sounded ok,
it's more like some weird LOW...i call it "flutter" but not speaker flutter as such.

talking of "speaker" i'm about 90% sure that the problem comes from the new IR's.

i never really liked the standard FAS IR's, so i was absolutely stoked about the new ones.

that's why i started dialing new FW10 sounds using the new IR's (new CALI)

then i loaded the old 4x12 cali which i didn't like before, and WOW, such a difference, it sounds superior compared to the new one...

then i browsed through the other IR's and realized that all the new IR's have this strange "saturated" sound.

there are also a few old ones that sound like that...the KALTHALLEN IR's were a few of them.

then i converted my all time favorite IR i have used since i got my standard and now i'm absolutely happy with the sounds.

i loaded up the 6160 BLOCK model and the IR...it sounds absolutely great without ANY tweaking,
it's just a bit weak on the low end and has not enough gain, but that's adjustable in seconds.

then i tried the same thing with some of the new IR's and, well it's not usable, way too boomy, cloudy, unbalanced (just my 2c, i hope nobody gets offended :D)

Tubeamps can produce higher frequenzys than you can hear .
If you want to. Tubes are used in radiotransmitters.

i don't have that much experience there, my only tube amp ever was an old HOHNER orgaphone, it sounded great but it was more a radiator than an amp :D

I've had good success turning down the Amp Input Trim parameter on some models.

tried that also but it does nothing more than raising/lowering the gain, at least on the 6160 BLOCK model...:)
 
here's what it actually sounds like:

FW10 issue

Not hearing the "issue" either. Doesn't sound off from a technical standpoint. I'd back off on the low end personally, as that bass-heavy a tone wouldn't sit in my mixes, but that's just me of course. What's it sound like in context? That's what ultimately matters, right?
 
Not hearing the "issue" either. Doesn't sound off from a technical standpoint. I'd back off on the low end personally, as that bass-heavy a tone wouldn't sit in my mixes, but that's just me of course. What's it sound like in context? That's what ultimately matters, right?

Beefcake, what do you recommend as far as backing off on the low end? He's already at a '2' on the bass dial and isn't adding any low end anywhere else in the 'pre' section as far as I can tell. Just curious because some of the amps I've tried to dial the only way I can dial out what sounds like some mud and flub is to completely cut the bass in the 'pre' section and in the GEQ section at the end, sometimes even needing an EQ before the amp block. Obviously settings this extreme shouldn't be natural. With past FWs a general guideline that served me well was to never dial any one parameter to extreme settings. If the needed parameter adjustment seemed too extreme, I was probably tweaking the wrong thing. But so far that methodology hasn't really been working.
 
Yeah, cab ir's makes almost all the difference, no doubt. A "static" saturation behavior would seem logical to come from an ir; good thing you solved it.

As a high gain player my self, I've also found the new ir's far from my liking - to much low end content and not enough of high mids. But I guess they where aimed at other styles. Hopefully we will see a "metal producers pack" sometime in the future. Untill then, check out Ownhammers newly released Mesa pack. It's very impressive.
 
Not hearing the "issue" either. Doesn't sound off from a technical standpoint. I'd back off on the low end personally, as that bass-heavy a tone wouldn't sit in my mixes, but that's just me of course. What's it sound like in context? That's what ultimately matters, right?

as you can see from the screnshot i have set the bass very low already. the example sounds washed out and muddy, cloudy, undefined, there is no clarity.
turning up treble or presence does not help as this results in harshness and even then, no clarity at all.
it doesn't also fit in the mix, i've already tried that. today i tried a custom IR and it sounded absolutely great, just on default settings.

i am really not into mocking, as i'm not 100% that the problems comes from there, i am just wondering whats actually "wrong" with the new IR's.


Beefcake, what do you recommend as far as backing off on the low end? He's already at a '2' on the bass dial and isn't adding any low end anywhere else in the 'pre' section as far as I can tell. Just curious because some of the amps I've tried to dial the only way I can dial out what sounds like some mud and flub is to completely cut the bass in the 'pre' section and in the GEQ section at the end, sometimes even needing an EQ before the amp block. Obviously settings this extreme shouldn't be natural. With past FWs a general guideline that served me well was to never dial any one parameter to extreme settings. If the needed parameter adjustment seemed too extreme, I was probably tweaking the wrong thing. But so far that methodology hasn't really been working.

yeah, i am also using an EMG81 which is very bright in general.


That's a far cry from how I'd set that amp, but, I'd probably tweak high and low cut in the cab block. 20hz to 20khz is pretty nuts.

cab block settings are helpful but i think they shouldn't be a "MUST". what would you change in the amp settings!?
 
cab block settings are helpful but i think they shouldn't be a "MUST".

I do understand that thinking, however, a real guitar cab would not put out anywhere near that range of frequencies. I narrow it down to something close to what the real speaker can produce most of the time.
 
I do understand that thinking, however, a real guitar cab would not put out anywhere near that range of frequencies. I narrow it down to something close to what the real speaker can produce most of the time.

A Cab IR is already doing that. You shouldn't have to modify the cab block EQ further to get it to sound like a speaker, as it is already capturing the exact sonic signature (or at least EQ) of a speaker.

FWIW, I'm having the exact same issue as Soultrash. And just to be clear, I feel the same way about it... No interest in complaining, just trying to figure out how to work through it.
 
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Yup, in theory, yet if that were the case, those controls would have no impact outside of the range of the captured speaker, but they do.



Edit: In the interest of fact gathering, do you also use Axe Edit metal190?
 
@Drama - I originally uploaded FW 10 w/ Fractalbot but then did some editing with AE. Things got a little weird, and the tone was way off (some funky hiss, and not enough gain in the HG amps), so I did a system reset. Things got better, but I was still having trouble dialing tones, so i reuploaded the FW with Fractalbot. I haven't used AE since, but am still having a murderous time getting good tones. MY HG tones all sound and feel like Soultrash's, or much worse. I've tried a bunch of different amps.
 
i leave saturation,
grid modeling, depth etc. off as it coulds up the tone a bit IMHO. :)

Maybe these old practices don't work any more?? Try leaving them at default. Treat the Axe FX as a new unit(because it really is). Try all of the other amps, use your ears, not your eyes. We all say stuff like "I'm not a Marshall guy, or a Mesa guy," Try it all.

BTW, try lowering the "transformer match" parameter?
 
Yeah, cab ir's makes almost all the difference, no doubt. A "static" saturation behavior would seem logical to come from an ir; good thing you solved it.

As a high gain player my self, I've also found the new ir's far from my liking - to much low end content and not enough of high mids. But I guess they where aimed at other styles. Hopefully we will see a "metal producers pack" sometime in the future. Untill then, check out Ownhammers newly released Mesa pack. It's very impressive.

same thoughts on the FAS IR's here. i have tried to tame the lowend using the advanced parameters,
it got better but i couldn'Ät get rid of the lower mids....mudcity! ;D

stoked to try the new ownhammer IR's but i am not sure what to expect.
i didn't really like the old IR's and also the BOGNER V30 beta IR's were not my cup of tea.

honestly i bought a lot of comercial IR's but i almost didn't like/use any of them.
they all tend to be soound overpronounced either in bass, mids or highs.


I do understand that thinking, however, a real guitar cab would not put out anywhere near that range of frequencies. I narrow it down to something close to what the real speaker can produce most of the time.

so the IR's are faulty? i mean if a real speaker can not produce certain frequencies, why does the IR taken from this speaker do!?

A Cab IR is already doing that. You shouldn't have to modify the cab block EQ further to get it to sound like a speaker, as it is already capturing the exact sonic signature (or at least EQ) of a speaker.

FWIW, I'm having the exact same issue as Soultrash. And just to be clear, I feel the same way about it... No interest in complaining, just trying to figure out how to work through it.

maybe we should put up a collection of free IR's that fit for our purpose. i will also upload a short comparison later, one riff, same settings and then just swap the IR. i think the problem will be
way more clearer then.


Yup, in theory, yet if that were the case, those controls would have no impact outside of the range of the captured speaker, but they do.

do you know why? :)

@Drama - I originally uploaded FW 10 w/ Fractalbot but then did some editing with AE. Things got a little weird, and the tone was way off (some funky hiss, and not enough gain in the HG amps), so I did a system reset. Things got better, but I was still having trouble dialing tones, so i reuploaded the FW with Fractalbot. I haven't used AE since, but am still having a murderous time getting good tones. MY HG tones all sound and feel like Soultrash's, or much worse. I've tried a bunch of different amps.

i think that happens when you set drastic changes tooo quickli. the sound kind of gets pitched, distorted and fizzy. i just close AE in this case and move on a preset forward and then back again to restore the original setting.

Maybe these old practices don't work any more?? Try leaving them at default. Treat the Axe FX as a new unit(because it really is). Try all of the other amps, use your ears, not your eyes. We all say stuff like "I'm not a Marshall guy, or a Mesa guy," Try it all.

BTW, try lowering the "transformer match" parameter?

i am not adjusting by eyes only of course! :D
i also tried all of the "extra settings" but i found out very quickly that they lead away from the sound i am trying to dial in.

i tried this also, i seemed like transformer match does nothing else than brightening or darkening the tone, just as an lowcut/hicut would do.
i see this option gets gemtioned quite often so i'll give it another, more intense try :)
 
ok, now i'm 100% sure it's an IR problem.
it's a matter of taste though, not saying the new FAS IR's are bad, they're just not my cup of tea.

i used my two favorite IR's (diezel, asem) a new one i discovered yesterday (guitarhack) and 3(old cali, new cali, petrucci) IR's from the axe.
maybe i got too used to them but the diezel and the asem sound the best to me.
the guitar hack is not my cup of tea. the old cali sounds really good and the last two sound the worst IMHO, way too much mud and a very strange lowend.

it's still early so please excuse the shitty playing! :D


001_Diezel V30 SM57 (Soldano HR PowerAmp)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/001_Diezel V30 SM57 (Soldano HR PowerAmp).mp3

002_ASEM RECTO V30 L2
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/002_ASEM RECTO V30 L2.mp3

003_New_Edge 2013 GuitarHack
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/003_New_Edge 2013 GuitarHack.mp3

004_4x12 CALI
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/004_4x12 CALI.mp3

005_4x12 CALI LEAD 80S MIX
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/005_4x12 CALI LEAD 80S MIX.mp3

006_4x12 PETRUCCI V30 MIX
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2576909/006_4x12 PETRUCCI V30 MIX.mp3
 
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