NGD - PRS content

Ok, guys, I need some help.

I really like how this guitar plays and sounds but I can NOT get it to stay in tune for the life of me.

It came with 10s and exhibited the problem on arrival. Even after a couple days to "settle".

I put on my normal 009 set, stretched the hell out of them, got the intonation all adjusted perfectly.

Every time I pick it up it's out of tune. I can get it in tune... For a few minutes.

Even if I don't touch the tremolo, and I've got a light touch.

Strings go sharp, strings go flat :(

All my guitars with tremolo are Floyd Rose style (Ibanez Edge) with locking nut, so I'm comfortable with a floating trem and all but I have no experience with a traditional style tremolo.

I'm not sure if it's typical but the trem has 4 springs - 2 on top, 2 on bottom, center is empty. The tension is lower than my Edge if that matters.

Nothing appears to be shifting. The neck bolts are snug, the trem has no slop.

Typical tricks like a quick dip or pull-up don't help, either.

Please help before I pull the little remaining hair I have out.
 
unix-guy said:
I really like how this guitar plays and sounds but I can NOT get it to stay in tune for the life of me.
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Whoa. That's the exact opposite of every PRS I own -- they are all rock solid all year round.

I'm not sure if it's typical but the trem has 4 springs - 2 on top, 2 on bottom, center is empty. The tension is lower than my Edge if that matters.
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That's what my trem'ed PRSi have as well. But it really shouldn't matter much.

PRS are setup for 10s out of the factory but dropping the gauge should just mean a tension change to the springs and some intonation tweaks.

You've got the strings locked properly? Phase IIs? Phase IIIs? You're not winding a ton of string around the peg heads are you? You don't need much more than half a wind on the low strings if they're locked properly to bring them up to pitch. Maybe a whole wind or a wind-and-a-half on the high strings. Less is more here.

 
iaresee said:
Whoa. That's the exact opposite of every PRS I own -- they are all rock solid all year round.


That's what my trem'ed PRSi have as well. But it really shouldn't matter much.

PRS are setup for 10s out of the factory but dropping the gauge should just mean a tension change to the springs and some intonation tweaks.

You've got the strings locked properly? Phase IIs? Phase IIIs? You're not winding a ton of string around the peg heads are you? You don't need much more than half a wind on the low strings if they're locked properly to bring them up to pitch. Maybe a whole wind or a wind-and-a-half on the high strings. Less is more here.

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I think they are the phase II. They are sealed...

I followed the PRS instructions when I changed the strings, no excess wraps.

I don't think any string has as much as a full wind. I had them fairly tight before locking by hand and then "cinching" with a pick in the locking slot.
 
iaresee said:
Whoa. That's the exact opposite of every PRS I own -- they are all rock solid all year round.


That's what my trem'ed PRSi have as well. But it really shouldn't matter much.

PRS are setup for 10s out of the factory but dropping the gauge should just mean a tension change to the springs and some intonation tweaks.

You've got the strings locked properly? Phase IIs? Phase IIIs? You're not winding a ton of string around the peg heads are you? You don't need much more than half a wind on the low strings if they're locked properly to bring them up to pitch. Maybe a whole wind or a wind-and-a-half on the high strings. Less is more here.

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Also, the video you linked describes a slight difference to this video:



And this PRS document:

https://www.prsguitars.com/index.php/support/article/phase_locking_tuners

In the one you posted, the guy puts about a half wrap on before tightening the lock, but the links I just posted both show locking with the string still straight.

The PRS page says to tighten no more than 1/8 turn with a coin so I didn't want to overdue it. Maybe I just need to tighten a bit more?
 
alboz28 said:
I owned a CE24 and went through this to get the bridge to float correctly. The 3rd string would always go out of tune until I fine tuned everything. After these adjustments I never had a problem. I hope it helps:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/50351/prs-trem-setup
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I'm going to check the trem screws later based on the video in that thread...

Can I assume the stock CE bridge is going to use the same method since that video is for a Mann-Made bridge?
 
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unix-guy said:
In the one you posted, the guy puts about a half wrap on before tightening the lock, but the links I just posted both show locking with the string still straight.
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I should have watched it more closely before posting. I 100% agree with pulling the string straight through a clamping it. That's how I've always done it with PRS locking tuners.
 
If I'm not mistaken, the newer CE's have the import tremolo. I've had 3 'core' CE's and none of had any tuning stability issues. I tried setting up a friend's SE and noticed the stability wasn't as good so I don't know if maybe that's the issue?

One thing I would check is the trem mounting screws (into the body) and see if they're notched just below the head. I believe the notched screws is the main reason PRS trems are typically more stable than other vintage style trems.
 
Sonofiam said:
If I'm not mistaken, the newer CE's have the import tremolo. I've had 3 'core' CE's and none of had any tuning stability issues. I tried setting up a friend's SE and noticed the stability wasn't as good so I don't know if maybe that's the issue?

One thing I would check is the trem mounting screws (into the body) and see if they're notched just below the head. I believe the notched screws is the main reason PRS trems are typically more stable than other vintage style trems.
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Thanks. That is what the previous video talks about... Will give that a look later.
 
alboz28 said:
I owned a CE24 and went through this to get the bridge to float correctly. The 3rd string would always go out of tune until I fine tuned everything. After these adjustments I never had a problem. I hope it helps:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/50351/prs-trem-setup
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So, I got a chance to use the bridge screw adjustment method mentioned in the link.

I think this has addressed the problem, but I need to get some play time with it.

All of the screws were higher than the 2.5mm listed in the video... Maybe 3mm, and I think a few of them were not at the same height as the others.

I got them all to 2.5mm and the bridge seems to sit on ALL knife edges now.

At this point, mild use of the trem does not appear to result in any strings going sharp.
 
Ok, so as mentioned in my previous post, I think I've got the tuning issue resolved BUT it was a frustrating experience.

When I got the guitar and put me in new strings on, the high E broke at the tuner while stretching. This happens to me maybe 1 in 10 times with my other guitars... So I have extras.

When I was preparing to adjust the bridge I slacked all the strings. The D string broke at the post. :(

I assume maybe I had over tightened the string lock?

Decided to remove all the strings and just put on a fresh set after bridge adjustment.

Adjust the bridge, put on new strings, stretch and retune.

Play a bit... Strings need more stretching stretch some more. Snap! D string snapped at the tuner. Again.

Put on new D string paying careful attention not to over tighten. Stretch gently... All good.

Continue gently stretching. Snap! High E snaps at the post ;(

Replace high E. More stretching. Snap!

Are you f@@king kidding me?!? :mad:

The D string snapped again...

I checked the post... No rough edges, no burrs. I removed the locking screw. No problems there, either.

New D string. Tighten just a smidge beyond finger tight (definitely less than 1/8th turn mentioned on PRS site).

So far, it's survived but I am now really wary... And super frustrated.
 
Sounds like someone was doing surgery on that thing before you got it and left it in a state. Maybe take it apart and polish the saddles and nut up? Make sure there are no burrs, etc. that could be cutting the strings? What you're experiencing is far, far from typical for a PRS.

I'll give you tree fiddy for it if you really start to lose your mind. ;)
 
iaresee said:
Sounds like someone was doing surgery on that thing before you got it and left it in a state. Maybe take it apart and polish the saddles and nut up? Make sure there are no burrs, etc. that could be cutting the strings? What you're experiencing is far, far from typical for a PRS.

I'll give you tree fiddy for it if you really start to lose your mind. ;)
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Every string break has been at the tuning post... I hope it's just my lack of experience with locking tuners. I don't think the issues are related to saddles or the nut.

And as I know from dealing with a drummer rack with my old drummer (who called "fingers of death"), the term "finger tight" is different to each person and not a technical unit of measure ;)

Worst case, I'll take it to Gary Brawer!
 
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