NGD: Finally got myself a tube amp! Need tone help with Axe-fx

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
I've been struggling with my guitar setup for years... Long story short, today I got a 1998 Mesa Boogie Triple Recto, Mesa 4x12 and a Mesa 2x12 for a killer price. First time I've ever been able to A/B from the comforts of my own home. After cleaning it all up I dialed up some tunes. I don't know much about tube amps but I landed on a killer tone using the 4x12 which also translates almost identically to the 2x12, Channel 2 (full power) Orange on Vintage mode, Presence, Low, Mid and Gain are all at 12 o'clock, High is dimed and Master is just above "off" maybe around 6 o'clock. I'm tuned to Dropped Bb and I'm doing open chords and there is this awesome low end chunk/rumble that (at bedroom levels) sounds/feels amazing. I tried the Recto 1/2 Vintage Orange and it has the same character but it is missing that low end chunk/rumble. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated!
 

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Yes, Low Frequency Resonance: find the correct frequency where you feel the 'whoomp'.
 
Yeah.. master should be around 3-4 to match the recto.
... but for "recto":ish I prefer the FAS modern
 
Thanks for the quick responses...

I will definitely try to adjust the "Dynamic Depth" and "low resonance frequency".

The reason I had the MV so low was to match the MV on Ch2 of the Triple Rec... Man... That thing can get loud super fast! I will adjust with my ears instead of my eyes next time. But just to confirm, which amp sim should I be using (to better match the recto) on Axe? Thanks!
 
I first dialed in the Triple Rec Channel 2, strummed a couple chords and then put the amp on standby (not used to this since I've only ever had solid state power amps and one solid state Marshall amp), unplugged the speaker and connected it to the power amp that is connected to the Axe-fx. I will preface this to say that I've been through Two Carvin (one that Cliff was previously using that I can remember now, and the D1504L) power amps, a Peavey PV2600 power amp , a QSC GX5... I just remembered that years ago I had bought a used Carvin TS100 that had one of the channels blown. That power amp sounded very 3d/sizzle/crytal-like but the single 50-watt channel wasn't nearly as loud as I wanted it to be. As soon as the drummer would start playing it would drown it out... I suspect that channel was messed up as well because I've heard 60-watt amps sound crazy loud before! Through all this time of using the Axe-fx (Ultra/II) it's always missed something. I've been trying to go the solid state power amp route all of these years but now that I think about it, I should have just bought a new Carvin TS100 and be done with it. I just don't know what the heck I've been lacking in my tweaking all these years (I think 7-8 years). Most of the crowd won't know the difference but ever since I've been jamming with a second guitarist and hearing his Triple Rec just cut through on a single 2x12 while I'm driving a 4x12 Marshall on top of a Genz Benz 2x12 which sounds pretty good together but is lacking in whatever eq spectrum that his combination is using to cut through. I can certainly get louder than him but then I just drown everyone out. His rig sits just right, it's crazy.
 
The Master on the Axe works very differently than a Master Volume on an amp. Read up on it in the manual.
We definitely need tool tip for Axe edit. So much info for a small brain I forget stuff after learning something else.
One in two out...its like US regulation
 
I initially had the Axe MV at the default noon setting and it still lacks that "body". Are you saying that I should have it past that even if the channel 2 MV is at 6 o'clock on the amp? I wouldn't think that the authenticity of the MV would deviate that much. I'm really leaning towards that speaker resonance setting since I remember Cliff mentioning some time ago that an amp will somehow read the resonance of a cab but since the Axe-fx does actually have a load it can't read it. Just not sure where to start with that.
 
I first dialed in the Triple Rec Channel 2, strummed a couple chords and then put the amp on standby (not used to this since I've only ever had solid state power amps and one solid state Marshall amp), unplugged the speaker and connected it to the power amp that is connected to the Axe-fx. I will preface this to say that I've been through Two Carvin (one that Cliff was previously using that I can remember now, and the D1504L) power amps, a Peavey PV2600 power amp , a QSC GX5... I just remembered that years ago I had bought a used Carvin TS100 that had one of the channels blown. That power amp sounded very 3d/sizzle/crytal-like but the single 50-watt channel wasn't nearly as loud as I wanted it to be. As soon as the drummer would start playing it would drown it out... I suspect that channel was messed up as well because I've heard 60-watt amps sound crazy loud before! Through all this time of using the Axe-fx (Ultra/II) it's always missed something. I've been trying to go the solid state power amp route all of these years but now that I think about it, I should have just bought a new Carvin TS100 and be done with it. I just don't know what the heck I've been lacking in my tweaking all these years (I think 7-8 years). Most of the crowd won't know the difference but ever since I've been jamming with a second guitarist and hearing his Triple Rec just cut through on a single 2x12 while I'm driving a 4x12 Marshall on top of a Genz Benz 2x12 which sounds pretty good together but is lacking in whatever eq spectrum that his combination is using to cut through. I can certainly get louder than him but then I just drown everyone out. His rig sits just right, it's crazy.

Have you ever tried a Matrix poweramp? I use to use a Mesa 2:90 poweramp and all solid state poweramps lacked something. The Matrix GT1600FX was the only one that instantly felt as good. Zero issues with is. No tubes to replace and weighs like 14lbs I think. Great poweramp.
 
As I said; the Master in the Axe works very differently than a MV on an amp. You will need to read about it in the manual. It is a control that does not match an actual control on the amp (though it accesses the some of the same end result of controlling how much Preamp distortion vs. power amp distortion). The Master in the Axe dials in power tube distortion, while somewhat maintaining uniform output (if I remember correctly). This is very different than how a MV works on an amp. To accomplish the same thing in the Axe (as an amp MV) you need to use the Master in conjunction with the Output Level.
 
I first dialed in the Triple Rec Channel 2, strummed a couple chords and then put the amp on standby (not used to this since I've only ever had solid state power amps and one solid state Marshall amp), unplugged the speaker and connected it to the power amp that is connected to the Axe-fx. .
Unplugging load from a tube amp, EVEN in standby is not the smartest thing to do.
 
See this is the reason why I want to stay away from tubes! So you're telling me that having it on standby still requires a cab load? The back of the amp has slots for one 16 ohm, two 8 ohm and I think two 4 ohm cabs. If I have two 8 ohm cabs plugged in can I safely unplug one?

OK, will do on the MV settings.

Man I've really wanted a Matrix but they are so damn expensive! On top of just spending some cash on this gear. For the longest time (years ago) Cliff had made huge jumps in the power amp modeling. Do you think it's still not up to par?
 
See this is the reason why I want to stay away from tubes! So you're telling me that having it on standby still requires a cab load? The back of the amp has slots for one 16 ohm, two 8 ohm and I think two 4 ohm cabs. If I have two 8 ohm cabs plugged in can I safely unplug one?

OK, will do on the MV settings.

Man I've really wanted a Matrix but they are so damn expensive! On top of just spending some cash on this gear. For the longest time (years ago) Cliff had made huge jumps in the power amp modeling. Do you think it's still not up to par?
Newer Mesas are better at mismatched loads, and INFINITE load (which is what no speaker attached is). Mesa uses circuitry to minimize the effect on newer amps. But, it's just never a good idea, on any tube amp having no speaker attached and powered, even in standby. In reality I would contact Mesa and specifically ask them. THe fact that you didn't blow the amp up, makes me believe you may be okay. Infinate load on an OT usually ends quite spectacularly. Output transformer basically takes high voltage, low current signal, and steps it to low voltage high current to the speaker. When no speaker attached, that current has no where to go, so reverses, and boom. As, I said, some amps have circuits to account for that, and keep it from blowing back. In standby, some amps, the current isn't making it to the OT, so no worries.

Reason, I mentioned, not a good idea, even in standby, is, there are more than one way to put standby in an amp. So, instead of remembering which amps are okay, with this or that, it is ALWAYS safe to follow the golden rule with tube amps, never have the amp on without a matched load plugged in.

Having blown up one amp, being sloppy like that, hate to see it happen to another.

On the 2 8 ohm, yea, if you disconnect the correct one (which might be either). Typically, when you have 2 8 ohm like that, when one is used, it uses the 8 ohm tap of the OT, with two, either the 16 ohm tap (and runs them in serial) or the 4 ohm tap (and runs them in parallel. Depends on the amp. Also some amps, you can use either of the 2 8 ohm for just one 8 ohm speaker, as the circuit only uses both WHEN both have a plug. Others, you have to use one for 8, and the other only when running 2. Not familiar with your amp. If it's the first doesn't matter, just keep one in. If it's the other, you have to keep the correct one in..
 
For the longest time (years ago) Cliff had made huge jumps in the power amp modeling. Do you think it's still not up to par?
The power amp modeling is definitely up to par. The taper of the MV is different to make it more useful as a control.

Find the MV sweet spot. And make sure you're playing the Axe at the same volume that you're playing the tube amp. A small change in volume can mean a big change in whoomp.
 
You have to use the same speakers on the Axe as with the amp for a fair comparison.. You said something about only unplugging one cab from the amp, so that made me wonder if you are using the same cabs with each setup to compare.
 
Great info cyberymgk, thank you. So basically, always have it plugged in if you're planning on turning it on. Another reason I want to stay away from tubes!!!!

Rex: What do you use for your setup that has you happy with the power amp simulation?

Randall d: Yes, I used the same cab (first the 4x12 and then the 2x12).
 
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