Next KAN IR project is: Added product sample

Kjetil A Nesheim

Kjetil A Nesheim

Inspired
Marshall 1960B Slash cab from The 1990’s.. This used to belong to me some years ago.
The plan is to make IR of all speakers to find the sweet one. I`m also considering adding an MD-421 to the mic setup. Any love for that mic? I was never a big fan of it personally. The combination of a ribbon mic with a standard SM-57 always work. I have an SM-7b here too.
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That's actually the same cab that this Cab Pack is based on: https://shop.fractalaudio.com/ML_Impulses_for_Destruction_p/fas-801-0051.htm

The MD421 is a difficult mic and many people steer away, it will sure tell you where not to place it, it'll have a huge nasty spike around 4khz quite easily. I personally think that there's nothing that mixes better with an SM57 than the modern MD421, it adds fullness and not darkness like just about every other mic does. From experience, it's probably the hardest mic to place and it's becoming a rarity to see IR producers even dare to have it in an IR collection. It takes a lot of time to get it right but trust me, you'll get the best IR mixes with it and the SM57. You can use one of those vintage white MD421s but it does a completely different thing.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :)
 
Had a great little session tonight trying out mic combinations. Also tried the different low-cut filters in the MD421, liked it off. The mic indeed has a spike around 4-5k. The Slash amp Model from the 1990’s was a remake of the Silver Jubilee head. This cab would be a perfect match for the Fractal Brit Silver amp model. Having owned the Slash head also I know what to expect of the combination. Stay tuned..
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
That's actually the same cab that this Cab Pack is based on: https://shop.fractalaudio.com/ML_Impulses_for_Destruction_p/fas-801-0051.htm

The MD421 is a difficult mic and many people steer away, it will sure tell you where not to place it, it'll have a huge nasty spike around 4khz quite easily. I personally think that there's nothing that mixes better with an SM57 than the modern MD421, it adds fullness and not darkness like just about every other mic does. From experience, it's probably the hardest mic to place and it's becoming a rarity to see IR producers even dare to have it in an IR collection. It takes a lot of time to get it right but trust me, you'll get the best IR mixes with it and the SM57. You can use one of those vintage white MD421s but it does a completely different thing.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :)
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I never liked the MD-421 on its own, and when I started using my trusty SM-57 combined with a ribbon it really never got used. But I tried it yesterday and it indeed sound cool combined with an SM-57. I see your pack is based on the 1960A version of the cabinet. The B cab sounds a bit different since it has a larger volume and is more solid without the angeld front.

Some historical notes about the cabs and amps:
The Silver Jubilee amps was released in 1987 and was not used on the Appetite for destruction recordings. But Slash used them on the following tours and albums. His amps was stolen under the 1992 riots in LA. He had came to rely on those amps. Marshall made the Slash version of the amp and cabs and released them in 1994 I think. This was also the period Slash had his own band called Slash’s Snakepit. That’s the reason for the Snake logo on the cabs. At that time G’nR was about to break up. When it comes down to the V30 speakers. They were made for Marshall in the beginning and was first released in the Silver Jubilee cabs. I dunno what cabs was used on the album. But since this was G’nR breakthrough It was likely a Studio rental cab.
 
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Kjetil A Nesheim said:
The B cab sounds a bit different since it has a larger volume and is more solid without the angeld front.
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Where did you hear that? How is the volume larger and more solid? I've actually made several comparisons of this with f.ex. a Mesa Slanted cab vs Straight cab loaded with the same exact speakers and there is no difference at all. It might be harder to place the mics exactly the same way but even then I was capable of getting the same EQ balance and sounds when placing the mics. I can send you comparison files if you're interested. :)

Kjetil A Nesheim said:
Some historical notes about the cabs and amps:
The Silver Jubilee amps was released in 1987 and was not used on the Appetite for destruction recordings. But Slash used them on the following tours and albums. His amps was stolen under the 1992 riots in LA. He had came to rely on those amps. Marshall made the Slash version of the amp and cabs and released them in 1994 I think. This was also the period Slash had his own band called Slash’s Snakepit. That’s the reason for the Snake logo on the cabs. At that time G’nR was about to break up. When it comes down to the V30 speakers. They were made for Marshall in the beginning and was first released in the Silver Jubilee cabs. I dunno what cabs was used on the album. But since this was G’nR breakthrough It was likely a Studio rental cab.
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Yeah it might even be that the guys themselves don't know what exactly the Appetite cabinet was. We actually got to compare the original guitar stems from Appetite so we could fine tune those IR's to be really close if not almost identical to the real thing. The pack has A and B versions where A is more of the Appetite sound and B is more of the Use Your Illusion type guitar sound. I really like how the pack turned out. :)
 
I bet they sound great. The hight of both cabs are the same and depth in bottom is the same. But the angled part cuts off some of the volum. I’m talking about physical air volume inside cab not volume in dB. But I guess you understood that.The angled front is made out of more parts than the straight fronted ones. So not the same. Quite logical really. There is about 0,5kg difference in weight between the cabs (1960AV and 1960BV) . They sound quite different to me. Boogie cabs weight is much higher and the build is more solid than Marshall cabs. The same with Bogner cabs. But we all love Marshall cabs anyway. The low end is much stronger in my 2x12 Bogner Cab than in the Marshall cabs because of the much more solid construction.
 
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Sorry if this is derailing the thread. :) I do personally prefer straight cabs as well and I only buy straight cabs at this point but the reason is just that when miking them up, it's hard to always know how the mic angle is with the slanted speakers. I have also heard of people giving all sorts of theories for why a slant cab sounds worse or better but as far as IR's go, at least the tests that I've done, literally miking the same mic position on the same exact speaker put in the same kind of cabinet with one cab being slant and the other straight - There is no difference in sound, it's hard to get the mic in the right angle but there's no difference really.

Sure, in the room when those two top speakers are pointing a little bit higher, the 4x12 sound spreads a little bit better in the room as is to be expected but honestly... 5 years of miking guitar cabinets every week and experimentation to try to find the truth about this has lead to the result that miking up a slanted cab is simply more annoying but when done right it doesn't matter. I don't think many people have done this experiment as thoroughly as I have since it's a stupid thing to compare. :) Since you've also noticed that all 4 speakers on a 4x12 sound different you'll quickly realize that if you're comparing a different slant cab to a straight cab then the difference is most likely just that one of the cabs has better speakers in it. Once again, I'm more than happy to give you comparison clips of this.
 
Well you have way more experience marking IR than I do. As you know I only started out doing this. I call only speak about my experience as a guitar player and engineer in my studio. I welcome the discussion. When it comes down to Marshall cabs compared to other cabs they are in my experience less solid build. Lighter weight etc..the size of my Bogner 212CL is almost the same as the 1960B cab and the weight is about the same. Air volume of a speaker cab will have some impact of how the cabinet sounds. An angeld cab will have less air volume than the straight version. A one part front slab vs multiple wooden parts etc..will also make a difference. Resonance etc will be different. If you can hear that on an IR or not? I’m not sure. I can surely hear a difference listening to the cabs in the room or on stage. But again I find that two different cabs of the same brand can sound different because of difference in wood quality. Etc..Hence putting the same speakers into two different cabs of the same model can sound different.
 
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ML SOUND LAB said:
Where did you hear that? How is the volume larger and more solid? I've actually made several comparisons of this with f.ex. a Mesa Slanted cab vs Straight cab loaded with the same exact speakers and there is no difference at all. It might be harder to place the mics exactly the same way but even then I was capable of getting the same EQ balance and sounds when placing the mics. I can send you comparison files if you're interested. :)


Yeah it might even be that the guys themselves don't know what exactly the Appetite cabinet was. We actually got to compare the original guitar stems from Appetite so we could fine tune those IR's to be really close if not almost identical to the real thing. The pack has A and B versions where A is more of the Appetite sound and B is more of the Use Your Illusion type guitar sound. I really like how the pack turned out. :)
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What was the amp models you used to match the IR’s with? Again thanks for sharing your experience. Sharing experiences and trying out stuff is the only way to learn.
 
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Kjetil A Nesheim said:
Marshall 1960B Slash cab from The 1990’s.. This used to belong to me some years ago.
The plan is to make IR of all speakers to find the sweet one. I`m also considering adding an MD-421 to the mic setup. Any love for that mic? I was never a big fan of it personally. The combination of a ribbon mic with a standard SM-57 always work. I have an SM-7b here too.
04AF890E-DA8C-4051-97B1-0CC7A8D94BC2.jpg
Click to expand...
It took a while for the 421 to grow on me. It seems to be better when blended in to add mids in the mix.
 
421 rocks on guitar cabs. I have been on 100's of sessions where that was the winner of the mic used for recording based on how the guitar sat in a mix.

Remember unless you are wanking off solo in a bedroom, it's the sound in a mix that counts whether it's live or a recording.

As Mikko pointed out though, it's a challenge to get the correct spots where mic gives you a great sound. But when it does, that sound is something not achievable with an sm57 or sm7b.
 
Well I’m not a bedroom wanker..lol.
I just preferred the SM-57 with Ribbon combination. I’m an active guitarist playing live. And I do both studio and live sound work. But often in the studio you stay with certain combinations coz they always work
 
Kjetil A Nesheim said:
Well I’m not a bedroom wanker..lol.
I just preferred the SM-57 with Ribbon combination. I’m an active guitarist playing live. And I do both studio and live sound work.
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I wasn't implying that at all.


Please accept my apologies if it came off that way as that was not my intention.

I found though that many people critique a mic based on an isolated solo sound rather than how that sound sits in a mix.
 
dr bonkers said:
I wasn't implying that at all.


Please accept my apologies if it came off that way as that was not my intention.

I found though that many people critique a mic based on an isolated solo sound rather than how that sound sits in a mix.
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Lol..no problem. I found the MD421 to a bit to aggressive for my taste. Moving the mic more off axis will help with that. But like I said ones you find some combinations you like it’s often easy to stay in the comfort zone..
 
Depending on the drums tuning, bass tones, and singer, sometimes you need that 421 aggression to cut through everything.

It's much easier to get the cutting tone at the mic in those circumstances than to try to dial it in with eq afterwards either live FOH or at a recording mix down.
 
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