New re-amp idea; your thoughts wanted

shasha

Fractal Fanatic
OK so I've been messing around with re-amping without using the USB method and it's really been a battle of compromise and/or failure. Some things I've taken away are that the analog output as a wet signal is fantastic going into a decent audio interface. It really does sound great. The analog dry signal on the other hand is a challenge because it's such a low level signal that by the time you record it and then send it back to the AxeFXII there is noise on there. I've gone balanced, humbuster, ground lifted and even taken the AES output and fed it into a standalone ADC and its still picking up RF or EMI or aliens.

Going with SPDIF or AES for the dry signal is fabulous. It's so pristine and noisefree that using it would be great....except that you have to switch between the AxeFXII and the audio interface as the master clock source every time you switch between the first take and re-amping it. This isn't very practical or even possible depending on your setup.

So what I've learned is that the digital path for the dry record and send is great. The analog path for wet is great. Master clock source is an issue...with one interface.

Which leads me to my latest idea.....two audio interfaces. Now you can't usually use multiple interfaces at the same time in a DAW unless you use ASIO4All (causes drift) or via aggregate audio devices (which is Mac only). But you can gang multiple interfaces together to be seen as one with some brands such as PreSonus and Focusrite. This would allow me to set up one interface as a master at all times. I would record wet analog directly into it. I would send the dry SPDIF signal to the AxeFXII during re-amping. This eliminates the need to switch master clock sources. The other interface would be used to record the dry signal via SPDIF which would be fine because the AxeFXII would be upstream in the chain thus being the clock source (meaning the 2nd interface is slaved).

The only issue I can see is if the AxeFXII is on it's internal clock when recording the first dry and wet take and this is a HUGE possibility. I have no way right now to test this without buying another interface and at the moment I'm into the research phase.

If any of this makes sense to any of you then you probably can contribute to this portion of the project and I'd like to hear it. It's not a matter of the USB not working for me because it does, but I'm hardheaded and my monitoring solution is all through my interface. I also like the capabilities it has vs just using the USB interface of the AxeFXII.
 
here's how I do it.....

guitar direct into the Mackie so the dry records via the Mackie's firewire
dry guitar send to Axe instr in
Axe out to Mackie
the dry guitar fader is down [so I don't hear it]
the Axe faders are up so when I play I hear the Axe

when the dry is being recorded I'll pop Guitar Rig on the channel strip in Logic to give me a 'rough tone' for monitoring playback
this is useful when checking your performance and for drop-in's

when all dry's are done I'm ready to reamp

I switch to the TC Electronics AI
TC out 3 to Axe instr in [via a RedEye]
Axe out's to TC ins 3/4
then I record all my reamped parts whilst I'm configed this way..

to mix down, I'll switch back to the Mackie

I've found that generally, agg interfaces in a Mac are not that great unless you have multiple firewire circuits [which is not the same as multiple places to jack in a firewire]... so I intend to add a PCI-E firewire to my Mac so that I can agg the Mackie and TC Elec

also, I intend to replace the TC with a Fucusrite Liquid Sapphire Pro 56 [which is a 8 x 8 firewire AI]
this means I can have the guitar and the Axe permanently jacked into the AI
I'll simply need to switch between mixer 'scenes' in the Pro 56 to switch between playing / recording the dry, and reamping..
I'll still have the Mackie [to bring the rest of my outboard to the party], so the PCI-E will enable the Mackie to agg with the Pro 56
I'm gonna add a nice lil' patch bay too for more routing flexibility between the Mackie, the Pro 56 and the rest of my toys
 
I'm running a Focusrite Saffire 24Pro DSP and to me it's fantastic. I've used a few other interfaces and the analog on these are the cleanest I've come across so far in the price range. I also love the applet for mix control.

But you get my point about it being a bit of a juggling act; I'm all about making the workflow fit the needs not the capabilities dictate workflow if you know what I mean. I suppose that's part of my real world job leaking over into my personal life here.
 
I totally understand.... work flow is everything...
and for me, this is where [funnily enough] guitar rig came to the rescue...
I got Komplete 7 for everything but guitar rig... lol..
but the way I use guitar rig allows me to record the dry [which monitoring the Axe so I feel all yummie when playing], and monitor the dry in context to make sure my playing was ok and works in the mix....

so whilst cutting the dry parts, I'll cut them all and have guitar rig on all of them...
and then when reamping, I'll do them all.. and as I do, the guitar rig instances get dumped as each reamp pass is completed..

the reason I have to work this way is that the Mackie is a 2 x 16 firewire...
I can record 16 external instruments at a time, but I can't reamp with it...
the TC is 4 x 4.. which is enough channels, but I don't like using it.. it's internal routing is not up to much..
the Pro 56 with a nice 16 by 16 patch bay will solve everything...
everything gets wired up once, nothing changes.. and I can record the dry whilst monitoring the Axe, and playback the dry and monitor the Axe without having to change config or recable things... worse case scenario is having to do a scene change in the Pro 56 mixer... a mouse click... no biggie..
but if if I've got my homework right, I'll be able to do it all via some sensible routing and not have to even change scene...
you play... you record... you reamp... job done..
 
How about some boosting of that dry signal inside the Axe, to get a good s/n ratio when going analog out of the Axe Out2 (also add some 12dB of boost/pad to that output)....then attenuate that dry signal by the same amount when sending it back out of your audio interface?
 
The Pro 24 should allow you to jack the guitar striaght into the AI and still hear the Axe... yes??
then you can record the guitar direct via firewire
 
The Pro 24 should allow you to jack the guitar striaght into the AI and still hear the Axe... yes??
then you can record the guitar direct via firewire

He would have to make sure input gain is the exact same each time though, to get consistent behaviour. I'm not familiar with that interface, but unless it has stepped or digitally controlled gain, this might be hard to control.
 
I do this and seems to work ok...
the main thing is that when you're reamping, check the input level when using a guitar..
and then match this with the channel strip in the DAW when it plays back

it takes a little [careful] messing with to get right initially
but once you've nailed it, you use the same setup and solution ever time...
 
Are you married to using the Axe Fx for your dry signal? I've done some shootouts between reamping signals using the Axe and using my DI box and it's either a tie or I've preferred the DI box (it is high end though). Much hotter signal too, no prob with noise. You do have to deal with a hot signal back in the Axe though. All my Ultra recordings were done this way.
 
I don't do a ton of reamp projects.

But I'm not getting excessive noise when I record dry via Analog. Outs 1 or 2.

In PT 10, the dry signal is very low level as compared to the rest of the session. And the default waveform view looks like a flat line compared to the other tracks, but it works fine for reamping. It just appears strange in the session.

Richard
 
you only need one interface

Main Input Source: Analog (In 1)
USB/Digi Out Source: Input
you'll hear your amp through the Axe's analog output, but your DAW will record the dry signal

Main Input Source: USB
USB/Digi Out Source: Output 1
as your DAW plays back the dry signal recording, you can record the amp/etc in another track
 
you only need one interface

Main Input Source: Analog (In 1)
USB/Digi Out Source: Input
you'll hear your amp through the Axe's analog output, but your DAW will record the dry signal

Main Input Source: USB
USB/Digi Out Source: Output 1
as your DAW plays back the dry signal recording, you can record the amp/etc in another track

I am using PT on Windows with another interface than the AxeFx.

So (mostly) I can't use the AxeFx USB when tracking.

Richard
 
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