New RCF NX12s—My personal monitor shootout

I'm thinking something is wrong with your RCF's if that is your issue. Honestly. I could not imagine turning mine up to full volume and halfway up on my Axe-FX II... oh, my God, it'd be insanely loud, like kill old ladies and small animals loud. And my presets are not cranked up in the Axe-FX either.

Something is amiss... I can have my Axe-FX at noon on the output knob, and at 3/4 the way up... I'm easily hitting +130db on peaks. You can't get louder with out pain. A LOT of pain.

OK. Now I feel (at least partially) like Gilda Radner... Nevermind!

I have discovered the primary issue: placement! (see pic below). I had no idea how focused the sound was from these things. Originally, I had them (on end) where you can now see the 450s on either side, while the 450s were staring me straight in the face on top of the Mesa cabs. So, just for giggles, I reversed the position. Man! What a difference! The volume, highs, presence, cut... increased a ton! And (unlike the Mackies which disperse too much) the stereo image is AWESOME! Although I've not tried them at my feet yet (I would usually not use them that way--they are used like a backline amp), I suspect they may even work better as they would be even more focused. I did not have to use the Mic level. They are now as loud as I would ever need with my Axe ouput at 50%. The Mackies were never this sensitive to placement. When Mike said "The SRM450 has very wide horizontal dispersion, while the NX12SMA is a nominal 60 degree conical pattern. It would be easier with the RCF to move off axis and start to lose some high frequency sound.", he nailed it. You've got to aim these things carefully. They are much more like a nearfield monitor and less like an amp or a traditional FRFR speaker. Now, with them chest level and aimed at me, there is no issue. I still have some tweaking to do. But, this is more like it!

I'm feeling a little dumb at the moment. So, feel free to have a laugh at my expense :(

Thx guys! And, I can't reccomend Mike Pyle highly enough. If you are considering RCFs, he is The Man!


RCFs.jpg
 
So if you were using these as a backline pointed at the audience, would the dispersion of the sound with the RCFs be too narrow to work for the majority of the crowd?
 
So if you were using these as a backline pointed at the audience, would the dispersion of the sound with the RCFs be too narrow to work for the majority of the crowd?
Excellent question! That was my next question... And, I don't know the answer. I almost bought the NX12A (non coax 2 way in a box). Maybe that is the answer for this? Clearly, the wedges are meant to be exactly what they are: monitors. Honestly, I didn't realize they were this directional. I'm not an acoustical enginer but I know there are some guys on this forum that are. What does a 60 degree dispersion mean if you are using this as an amp in a smaller venue?

I can tell you that I listened to some CDs on them today as I was mucking around the studio and they sounded darn good. Was I missing some volume/ high end when I was out of the cone? Perhaps. But, I didn't notice it. I think this may be a less critical question to the audience than it is to me. But, I would suspect that, if you were playing a smaller club and you had one of these 10' from the front of the stage (as I did yesterday in front of me), the guy sitting 10' to the left is going to hear something considerably different than the guy right in front. So, they may not be the best backline solution. Then again, that's not what they were designed for.

I think what I'll try in that situation is to use the 2 of them at slightly diffeent angles to try and cover more ground. If I can get to 90 degrees (that's what the Mackies do), it'll be fine. Maybe you push it back as far as you can on stage? 60 degrees spreads fast to cover ground.
 
Don't those monitors have to break in a bit?
I'll probably start a war with this, but...I don't think speaker break-in exists. The speakers don't break in. Instead, your ears get used to the way they sound.

I've seen and experienced it again and again. You get a new pair of speakers that's brighter than what you're used to. They sound brittle. You use them more and more, and you get used to them. They sound "broken in." Then you go back to your old speakers, and they sound dull—until you get used to them again—until they get "broken in" again.


krcassid: thanks for your honest and informative review, and your courageous owning-up when you discovered the problem. :)
 
OK. The $million test: My acoustic guitars. If I'm nuts (like the rest of you) about my electric guitar tone, I am insane about my acoustic sound. I use Trance Amulet transducers (which give me seperate bass/ treble side balanced outs). I used to run my acoustics through 2 Avalon U5 DIs, into 2 EL8 distressors, a stereo EQ and then an Eventide H8000. I'm not saying this to brag about my gear but so that you understand how truly insane I really am about my acoustic sound. I 've spent months perfecting my Axe acoustic presets (which are different for each guitar). But, live, the Mackies stunk for this: bottom heavy, top heavy... (which should have told me something about what they were doing to the electric presets too, right?) My JBL 6328/ Bryston setup was outstanding. So, how do the the NX 12 SMAs stand up to this test? This is a MUCH tougher test (for me) than the electrics.

Answer, in a word? Brilliant! Beautifully detailed and balanced. They are warm but articulate in the high end. Excellent bass (but not overdone). I would say they definately give the JBL/ Brystons ($6K of gear) a run for the money. And, I can use them live! This, alone, was worth the price of admission. Despite having good gear, I have spent a lifetime on stage listening to my Goodalls, Collings & Santa Cruzes sound like garbage through stage monitors (or IEMs). No longer!
 
Trust me and change the setting. Don't worry if it is 'wrong'. Everything you are posting will be cleared up.

Trust me.

Brother Scott - I've had a couple of nuggets from you in the past, but this one was pure gold - what a great suggestion!

I was really happy with the RCF anyway, but thought I'd try your suggestion for the hell of it this morning. I turned the output knob on the Axe to 9 o'clock, flipped the RCF input to 'Mic Level', turned up to around normal at-home playing volume, hit a chord and almost had an involuntary bowel movement. MAN that's loud as hell and has more punch than before.

Some dogs from 2 streets away started freaking out. Very happy.

Thanks!
Sukh
 
It shouldn't have more punch, it's just an additional gain stage. If you THINK it has, well, good for you.
Be careful with the Axe's output level not to overload the NX's input now.
 
I tried my nx on the mic setting with just my axe plugged it, huge difference in volume, no difference to me in tone or punch though. Mind you I use mine with a full band mix live so I'll deffinately not be using the mic setting there LOL

One question though. The signal led on the nx, the manual says it lights to show signal present. Why is it that as you turn up the volume on the nx that led is lit more and brighter. I'm not changing the input signal to why should it change as I turn up the volume? It's almost as if the signal,led is after the volume pot and input circuitry cos on the mic setting the led is lit brighter/more for the same signal than it is on the line setting.

Mine gets replaced on Tuesday though cos it's making some odd noises with the guitar. It sounds perfect with a full mix but guitar only there is some strange notes that appear as the notes I'm playing decay. I have a recording of it but can't get sound cloud to work right, it says it sending me a email to confirm the account but I never get it, and it's not going into junk. Any other way I can post it, it's only a few secs long. I'd be interested in your thoughts on it.


Cheers
 
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It shouldn't have more punch, it's just an additional gain stage. If you THINK it has, well, good for you.
Be careful with the Axe's output level not to overload the NX's input now.

Yep - probably perceived as its louder at lower knob settings. Sounded great though and more volume available than I would ever need, even in full band context (and our drummer is loud)
 
Sparky - the signal light is probably at the output not the input - so as the volume goes up the light gets brighter. Its the same arrangement on the Matrix GT800. Its not an input signal present light - its an output signal present.
 
Sparky - the signal light is probably at the output not the input - so as the volume goes up the light gets brighter. Its the same arrangement on the Matrix GT800. Its not an input signal present light - its an output signal present.

which is a bit silly when you think about it. you know there's output signal present, cos you can hear it, but if you can't hear anything, it would be helpful to know if there's signal at the input....
 
Whew. Glad to hear you are getting this box working for you.

I only said to try the mic/line switch (I run it in "Line" mode) because you said it was quiet... my experience from the first time I turned it on was not anything like you described.

The NX is a monitor, it's not a PA speaker kicked over on its side. The one thing to note is that when using it as a backline, some of the comments here implied that it was too direction to be used in that way. Not so. I've done it - I do it at rehearsals and I have done it at shows with it up on a stand. It is fine. I've carried medium/small rooms (that maybe hold 200 people) with it and was not disappointed in any way.
 
Paul, I agree that's what it seems to be, I agree with Simeon though.
And the manual says " signal led. The signal indicator lights green if there is signal present on the main XLR input". So it seems that the manual is in fact incorrect, and somewhat misleading. So when I put mine in mic mode that green led was on solid with the volume on the NX at the third notch, when I switch it to line then that led does not light at all. Of course I have not changed anything in the feed into the monitor.
 
I received my NX12 last week and the first thing I did was set the input sensitivity to LINE--or at least I thought it was.
The output was very low and I had to crank the Axe II to get some reasonable volume.
After looking at the diagram on the panel, it appears (IMHO) that the labeling is reversed. The actual "picture" of the switch position does not reflect the correct MIC/LINE label position.
After I switched it to match the picture rather than the label name everything sounded as I expected.

Here is a pic for reference.

DSCN0155.jpg
 
The way I read that picture, you have it set to mic.
Easy to tell anyway, the mic setting will always be louder. So switch it and you'll see.
 
which is a bit silly when you think about it. you know there's output signal present, cos you can hear it, but if you can't hear anything, it would be helpful to know if there's signal at the input....

Depends. In the NX yes - in the Matrix no (at least not as definate). it aids in judging the OP signals strengh - so whats going to the speakers. it also aids fault diagnosis I guess. That is you asume your getting an op from your "sound generation" device as most have OP monitoring. if you gettint no sound form your speakers then no light = amp issue, a light - cable/speaker issue.
 
Yep - probably perceived as its louder at lower knob settings. Sounded great though and more volume available than I would ever need, even in full band context (and our drummer is loud)
Toadfish, consider that the sensitivity of the Mic In is about 5 times higher than the Line In. Depending on its value, it's easy to saturate the In.
If you supply a line-level signal to the RCF (usually around 1 V, the typical output of a preamp), weak signals will sound stronger, but normal signals are more than likely to saturate the input. IOW, switching to Mic works if the signal you're supplying is too low. But, as long as the RCF's Out Vol and/or your modeler Out Vol is not yet maxed out, it's better to keep the sensitivity to Line and turn a few knobs clockwise :)
You'll be guaranteed a cleaner signal this way.
HTH
 
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