New Ibanez S5470Q: “sustain” problem. One note decaying abruptly.

Piing

Axe-Master
I’ve bought a new Ibanez S5470Q RBB for my 50[SUP]th[/SUP] birthday, and I’ve found a disappointing problem: some notes have an artificial and abrupt decay just few milliseconds before playing the note. It is most accentuated at the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] string 14[SUP]th[/SUP] fret (A-440Hz) and slightly less at the notes above and below.

It also happens, although not so pronounced, with the A-440 played on the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] strings

Before I bought the S5470Q I read issues with sustain on the S series, but it was only reported with the 2008 models like the S5470BW. The S5470Q is the top of the series, made in 2011.

Most of the comments on the forums about this issue are unreliable, because they are the kind of “boy, you bought a thin guitar for metal, so what sustain do you expect?”. Those opinions are useless and uninformed because it is not a question of lack of sustain; it seems to be a problem of some part of the guitar resonating at the same frequency of that particular note but with opposed phase, that causes the cancelation of the vibration of the string right before that note is plucked.

It is not the pickups. I have tried to lower them to the maximum. Furthermore, I have replaced the originals with Dimarzio EVO. No change.

It is not the amplifier or the speakers. The result is the same with the guitar unplugged.

Another strange issue is that the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] string at the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] fret (D-587Hz) doesn’t have a natural sound, it is like “out of phase”, thinner tone with some sort of amplitude modulation.

Unfortunately, that was the last model that they had at the Ibanez Importer in Bangkok. So I cannot change it or try another one.

Any thoughts on this issue?




Besides that, I am very happy with my new baby
S5470QRBB%20FB.jpg
 
My first suspects would be the tremolo springs. They resonate and adversely affect the tone of every guitar I've ever owned. They support some notes and cancel others. They continue to ring after notes have stopped.

Try dampening them and see if you can hear a difference.
 
one of my guitars has a dead note on the C note g string 17th fret .the note rings out but it doesn't sustain as long as every other note on the guitar .its like the wood fights the note , but that same pitch is fine everywhere else on the neck

at first I thought it was a fret issue but it isn't . got it checked and its just a weird wood thing ,like it cant resonate .if I detune half step the string the dead note moves up a fret with the C

It pissed me off at first but now its no biggie .the note does ring out clear and sustain , just not as well as every other note .
 
Some possibilities:

Bad nut - not likely with a lock nut, but make sure it's clamped tightly.

Poorly dressed frets - try raising the action to see if the problem is reduced. I generally hear buzzing before sustain reduction though.

Trem springs - already discussed.

Bad wood (body and/or neck) - some guitars just don't sound good due to the properties of the particular pieces of wood used. Wood is highly variable. This could produce dead spots. Not much you can do to fix this.

Bad bridge saddles - seems unlikely on this guitar.

Pickups too high - try lowering the pickups and see if the problem is reduced. I've never owned a triple-pickup guitar, so the problem might be greater than I've experienced due to pickup height.
 
If it's new enough that you haven't yet, I'd start with changing the strings. Might not fix the problem, but it's not like it's an expensive thing to try.

Other than that... I wouldn't think it's something with the nut or saddle(s), as you'd probably be noticing it or something similar on other notes on the same string(s). It maybe could be a fret thing, with a fret or a few being a bit too high but not in a way that it buzzes horribly while it's killing the note. But you said it's happening on that A at the 14th fret, as well as the same note to a degree on other strings. So it sounds to me like there's some kind of resonant problem with the guitar on that note, or something is dampening or cancelling out the resonance at that frequency. So as someone mentioned, look at the springs. Or maybe if there's one available that'll fit that bridge, you could try an aftermarket sustain block.

What mongey said about his problem note moving when he detunes his guitar might be an interesting thing for you to try out, in terms of trying to determine if it's a thing with that note or with that position/fret on the neck. I wouldn't mind trying it on mine out of curiosity, but it's a 7-string with a Floyd, so that's a big CBF from me.

My main guitar has one note (the 8th fret on the G) where the fundamental dies off a bit, leaving a feedback-like harmonic sound. Wasn't happy about it originally, and was hoping it was something a fret job would fix (nope). After a while I got used to it being there, and learned to make use of it. :)
 
I’ve already changed the strings. After changing the original strings to a set of D’Addario XL .010 I had to re-adjust the intonation and it seems like the problem is more accentuated, but that could be a psychological effect on my perception after concentrating too much on that issue.

I don’t think that it is a fret issue, because it also happens on the same note played at the second string. I’ve also tried rising and lowering the bridge. I’ve finally let the action at 1.5 mm and there is no buzz anywhere.

I’ve found this study about the effect of the fingerboard wood on the deadspots. The type of wood would not really eliminate the deadspots, but its density could make the position of the deadspot to move to different places. http://www.lam.jussieu.fr/Membres/Pate/Fichiers/ArthurPate_SMAC2013_Poster.pdf "The well-known "dead spot" phenomenon is observed, where a frequency coincidence of string and structure at the coupling point leads to an abnormal damping of the note. Striking is the different behaviour of each fingerboard wood about dead spots: affected notes, as well as how much they are affected, differ with the wood."

I will experiment attaching a piece of wood to the headstock with a clamp, and see if the dead-spot moves to another place.

It seems like $3k guitars also have dead spots. There is some interesting information at this thread (after filtering irrelevant staff)
So where are these "Dead Spots" I keep hearing about?

And more:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/obsessing-about-dead-spots.1327547/
[url]http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/what-is-a-dead-spot-on-a-guitar.763911/


[/URL]Nightmare definition of Dead Note: "Like, imagine Steve Vai playing for the love of god, and that A note half way through the main theme dying out on him... That's a career defining note!" :lol

And a convincing explanation: "One of the vibrational frequencies of your neck is probably close to the frequency of that note. The vibrational energy of the string at that frequency is then quickly lost into the neck"
 
Last edited:
Another interesting thing that I will try this evening: to damp the side of the string that is not necessary (from the nut to the pressed fret) and may be stealing the vibrational quantum energy. :nightmare:

I took that idea from amazon.com on a review about the Fender Fatfinger Bass Sustain Enhacer:

“This is all about the mechanical energy of the vibrating string. When that energy is evenly distributed between the neck and body, the guitar will have more sustain AND resonate better. If not balanced, the energy will go where the most mass is and the energy in the remaining part of the guitar or bass will be wasted. This is also true of acoustic guitars, which was what I used mine for. In the case of most acoustic guitars, the body can have a LOT more weight to it than the neck. This will have effect the manufacturer of the Finger claims. The body will steal resonance from the neck and you'll have dead spots. BTW, if the neck is too massive for the body, such as with an Ibanez "S" series, the reverse happens. Unplugged, you'll hear the string vibrating on *both* sides of your finger. The two tones have nothing to do with each other. This is called a "wolf tone" and it also wastes the string's energy, killing tone and sustain. If the instrument is light in the neck, The Fat Finger will help. If it's neck-heavy, it won't. Clip a solid metal capo to your head stock. If the tone opens up and breathes nicely, get one. If you have the reverse problem (wolf tones; a kind of out-of-tune buzz), you need to add mass to the body with a similar counter weight. My Godin xtSA is like that. I used four brass Fender Strat neck plates, hid them in the trem cavity (I blocked the trem) and screwed them right to the wood. The Fat Finger is a sound idea. heh.”

http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Fatfin...l_reviews&filterByStar=four_star&pageNumber=1
 
I think I’ve found the origin of the problem!!! :D :D :D

And this is my provisional solution:
S5470%20Solution%20to%20Dead%20Note%20Problem.JPG


It is good that I still keep those ultra-thin plectrums that I never use (I usually play with Dunlop 2.0, Ultex Jazz III 2.0 or massive V-Picks)
 
Last edited:
Well that's certainly interesting. Hopefully it's just a matter of shifting the saddles slightly.

On another matter... is that low E intonated properly?
 
I think it is. I had to re-intonate all the strings after replacing the originals that came with the guitar with a set of D'Addario .010. Do you observe something strange?

BTW: Today I have removed the ZPS3 springs of the Zero Point System and I prefer it like that. It flutters like a hummingbird!
 
I think it is. I had to re-intonate all the strings after replacing the originals that came with the guitar with a set of D'Addario .010. Do you observe something strange?

BTW: Today I have removed the ZPS3 springs of the Zero Point System and I prefer it like that. It flutters like a hummingbird!

Just that the one saddle looks out of place. The rest of them are all positioned, relative to each other, in a way that makes sense, but that E-string saddle looks out of place. Normally (with a plain ol' set of 10s) it'd sit a bit further back from the A, like your A is with the D, and then like the plain G is a bit back from the B and the B from the high E. Your original pic looks like what one would expect. Maybe it is somehow intonated correctly, but it certainly seems a bit odd.
 
Information for potential buyers of Ibanez S-Series:

I finally sold the S5470Q (2 years ago), and I lost a lot of money :(

I could not solve the problem of the dead spot, no matter what I've tried. It was too annoying.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom