New guy - on the fence about an FM3

Cool! Thanks, Bill. Pretty much it's all about accessing that EL34 power section, isn't? Bypassing
that preamp and getting directly to the Juice to let the FM3 shine. :)
 
Question #1: If I get one, I'll be running it across a half stack, either a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 with a 1960A cab or a Carvin X100B with Carvin 4x12. In either case, I'll be using 4-cable method (4CM). I'm not inclined at this point to invest the additional money into a dedicated power amp and monitors. The question is, how much do I lose in sound quality by doing it this way, as opposed to going with a power amp and monitors? To clarify, I really don't care about stereo.

Question #2: In your experience, how accurate do downloaded patches sound on your rig? I currently run a Boss GT-100 across the Marshall, and I've had Line 6 gear in the past. Downloaded patches, for me, have been very iffy at best. They'll either sound nothing like the video/sound sample, or they're kinda/sorta/semi in the ballpark, but require a lot of tweaking. I understand that we're talking about a lot of variables, like amp, guitar, pickups, etc., but I would like to think that a downloaded patch, played on a similar guitar, would be somewhat close.
In reference to question #1, I run my FM3 in the 4CM with a Rivera K7 amp, and I do not lose any sound quality at all. I leave the FM3 by the amp and run a FC-12 and an EV-1 out front. In terms of set up its nice because I only have a single XLR running between the FM3 and the controller, and I no longer need power at the front of stage. The FM3 changes the amp channels, reverb, and loop, and works great. I tried the 4CM with the K7 and a FX8 and it did cause noticeable tone and volume issues, but with the FM3 its great. As others have noted, I am only using the FM3 for effects and its control capabilities in this scenario. I also use the FM3 with a Seymour Duncan PS 170 into a 4x12 in other use cases and it sounds great that way as well.

In regard to question #2 I can not offer much help. I play around with the factory presets, but I have not downloaded any presets. In fact, I really only use presets that I have created myself. If you are asking about the models themselves, the ENGL savage model sounds so close to my real amp, that I am super happy not to lug it around anymore. =0)

I must say that I am very happy with the FM3, and it has probably saved me a lot of coin by not buying more outboard gear or amps.
 
Cool! Thanks, Bill. Pretty much it's all about accessing that EL34 power section, isn't? Bypassing
that preamp and getting directly to the Juice to let the FM3 shine. :)
Yes, but when I bring my own backline rig, I'm playing through one of those ISP Technologies stereo power amps into a stereo 2x12 cab. Easy on / Easy off. I'm going direct to the FOH & monitors, so I'm really hearing output 1 mostly. (I LOVE having sidefills.) I've got a little sweet spot back there by the drums with that 2x12 cab and I'm happy.
 
This setup will work just fine and sound good but it will be limiting. The real amps' poweramp will add its own effect on the sound and the cab will heavily effect how the whole thing sounds. So as long as you are aware that your Fenders and Voxes are not going to sound that authentic, as long as it sounds good to you it's fine.
 
I think the real key to the FM3 and all Fractal gear is the learning curve. You can do exactly what you're talking about, but as others have said, it will be very limiting compared to what the device is capable of. That said, it does take time and effort to learn the in's and out's of the unit, how to tweak the amps and cabs, and how to use them with different kinds of speakers (monitors vs headphones vs FRFR). Some find the sound and feel not quite up to their previous experiences with tube amps, but I'm not one of those people. I find that the ability to dial in amp models with IRs running through a loud FRFR gives me just as much satisfaction as any tube amp ever has - plus I can get those great sounds without having to crank the volume to ear piercing levels. The process is different - it isn't always plug and play though it isn't always hard or greatly time consuming. It's just different. All that said - I could never go back to a tube amp now that I have the flexibility to run 4 amps through 4 different cabs with multiple drives, boosts, tone shaping options, etc and switch them all seamlessly with an FC6. Plus, I can run analogue effects in the loop or in front of the FM3 if I so desire, though they certainly aren't necessary. I just love my Strymon Volante. Hopefully you find the feedback here helpful and find a solution that works for you.
 
I was in a similar situation until recently. I was using a GT100 as well with 4cm mode in a Diezel Einstein 50W. Basically I was using the Diezel preamp for my main high gain sound and then bypass the Diezel preamp to use some of the GT100 amps for cleans and crunch plus FX.

Then I purchased the FM3 and after some tests, decided that I enjoyed the FM3 amps a lot and no longer needed the Diezel preamp. I use now instead either the VH4 or 5150 amps models in the FM3 as my main heavy sounds. I owned a 5150 block letter in the past and the FM model is amazingly close to it, I even switched it's "virtual" tubes to JJ ones in FM3 as I did in my real 5150 and the effect to tame up the beast is exactly as I remember it. Then I use multitude of the other amps for cleans and crunch and don't miss the real Diezel tube at all, so I sold it and purchased instead a SS Class D amp to drive my Mesa 4x12 so I also got rid of a lot of weight to move around plus no longer need to take care of tubes etc.

To use the tube amp only as power amp sounds good but... its a waste of the tube amp imho if you always bypass the tube preamp. I prefer the FM3 into a Tube or SS power amp to get the most of it, but still into a real 4x12 cab as FRFR is not for me yet... still need to feel the speakers blowing in my back... step by step.

Gt100 is a great pedalboard btw, I owned it for 10 years, since it's release, but after testing and learning how to tweak the FM3, the amp models in it are much much better, both playing at gigs volume and through headphones.
 
Forgot to answer about your second point, user patches. I have downloaded a ton of the free ones and purchased a set from a known seller here. To be honest, I already knew what I could expect tone wise, as most are created either to record in studio or to play through PA and/or FRFR monitors, so they are not that great to go into a power amp and real cab in rehearsal or playing solo, but they are a good as starting point.

A lot of the patches, specially high gain ones, sound too thin and harsh vs what I expect, but if you listen to known bands records guitars alone, they are also thin and harsh sounding so they sit perfectly in the mix with the bass and drums plus most of them are in fact several layers of guitars, amps and eq.

So I repeat it again, most of the most known patches sold here are really good and mix ready for recording and FRFR but you need to manage your expectations accordingly. Before buying some, try the free ones they offer as demo, or from known youtubers that they offer in their channels.

Anyway the main reason I purchased them was to analyse and learn how these pros build their patches and it's been a real help to create my own ones, specially with complex effects chains, posteq, etc so I don't regret at all the purchase but if you have the time you better watch the amazing youtube Fractal content creators like Leon Todd and Cooper Carter and learn from them how to create your own.
 
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Question #1: If I get one, I'll be running it across a half stack, either a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 with a 1960A cab or a Carvin X100B with Carvin 4x12. In either case, I'll be using 4-cable method (4CM). I'm not inclined at this point to invest the additional money into a dedicated power amp and monitors. The question is, how much do I lose in sound quality by doing it this way, as opposed to going with a power amp and monitors? To clarify, I really don't care about stereo.

Question #2: In your experience, how accurate do downloaded patches sound on your rig? I currently run a Boss GT-100 across the Marshall, and I've had Line 6 gear in the past. Downloaded patches, for me, have been very iffy at best. They'll either sound nothing like the video/sound sample, or they're kinda/sorta/semi in the ballpark, but require a lot of tweaking. I understand that we're talking about a lot of variables, like amp, guitar, pickups, etc., but I would like to think that a downloaded patch, played on a similar guitar, would be somewhat close.

I initially thought that the lack of amp channel switching on the FM3 would be a deal breaker, but it occurred to me that I only use the Clean channel anyway, both for overdrive and clean sounds.
Hi, and welcome!

I've been using an Axe-Fx III for the past 2+ years, but my FM3 arrives today. So here's my 2 cents.

1. You'll be losing an amazing amount of versatility, but that may not be important to you. If you're married to your amps, go forth and rock on! But once I got my Axe-Fx III I sold my tube amps, as they basically got in the way. Sold all my pedals too. Now I run a stereo FRFR setup, and the sound is glorious. You may not care about stereo now, but have you tried it?

2. Downloaded/3rd party presets can be hit or miss. Consider that most demo videos have the modeler plugged directly into the recording interface, so they are bound to sound different on other rigs. Even moreso in your situation, because you won't be using the amp or cab modeling.

3. There is 4-channel amp switching on the FM3, all contained within a single amp block.
 
I was in a similar situation until recently. I was using a GT100 as well with 4cm mode in a Diezel Einstein 50W. Basically I was using the Diezel preamp for my main high gain sound and then bypass the Diezel preamp to use some of the GT100 amps for cleans and crunch plus FX.

Then I purchased the FM3 and after some tests, decided that I enjoyed the FM3 amps a lot and no longer needed the Diezel preamp. I use now instead either the VH4 or 5150 amps models in the FM3 as my main heavy sounds. I owned a 5150 block letter in the past and the FM model is amazingly close to it, I even switched it's "virtual" tubes to JJ ones in FM3 as I did in my real 5150 and the effect to tame up the beast is exactly as I remember it. Then I use multitude of the other amps for cleans and crunch and don't miss the real Diezel tube at all, so I sold it and purchased instead a SS Class D amp to drive my Mesa 4x12 so I also got rid of a lot of weight to move around plus no longer need to take care of tubes etc.

To use the tube amp only as power amp sounds good but... its a waste of the tube amp imho if you always bypass the tube preamp. I prefer the FM3 into a Tube or SS power amp to get the most of it, but still into a real 4x12 cab as FRFR is not for me yet... still need to feel the speakers blowing in my back... step by step.

Gt100 is a great pedalboard btw, I owned it for 10 years, since it's release, but after testing and learning how to tweak the FM3, the amp models in it are much much better, both playing at gigs volume and through headphones.
I love the GT-100 in general, but I agree that the preamps aren't all that. I rarely use them. I use one for an emulation of the "We Will Rock You" guitar part and another one on a clean patch. Another thing that bugs me is that the mic placement, speaker type, etc. settings are only active when set to direct recording. My old Vetta rig, as lacking as it was, let you apply those settings across the speaker cabs.
 
Yes, but when I bring my own backline rig, I'm playing through one of those ISP Technologies stereo power amps into a stereo 2x12 cab. Easy on / Easy off. I'm going direct to the FOH & monitors, so I'm really hearing output 1 mostly. (I LOVE having sidefills.) I've got a little sweet spot back there by the drums with that 2x12 cab and I'm happy.

Thanks, Bill. Is that the ISP Stealth??
 
I'm leaning more and more toward getting a power amp and a pair of monitors. The few times I've heard someone run a stereo across a guitar cab, it wasn't a great result.
 
Hi, all. New guy, first post. Some of you may know me from other guitar/amp forums. Heaven knows I've been on plenty of them over the years.

As the title says, I'm on the fence about an FM3. The YouTube demos I've heard have sounded phenomenal. Maybe the following questions will get me off the fence!

Question #1: If I get one, I'll be running it across a half stack, either a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 with a 1960A cab or a Carvin X100B with Carvin 4x12. In either case, I'll be using 4-cable method (4CM). I'm not inclined at this point to invest the additional money into a dedicated power amp and monitors. The question is, how much do I lose in sound quality by doing it this way, as opposed to going with a power amp and monitors? To clarify, I really don't care about stereo.

It can work fine- you get a little bit of hiss in front of a gained up tube amp. You can manipulate the boost/pad setting on output 2 to reduce the hiss in exchange for output headroom- be careful not to clip the output. This hiss isn't awful and you might not even notice it if you're used to putting an active pedal in front of your amp.

The FM3 makes an awesome "tube preamp" into the FX returns on a tube amp. Try it first with the poweramp sim disabled. I think you might find that you can dial it up so that it is as good as the real tube preamp.


Question #2: In your experience, how accurate do downloaded patches sound on your rig? I currently run a Boss GT-100 across the Marshall, and I've had Line 6 gear in the past. Downloaded patches, for me, have been very iffy at best. They'll either sound nothing like the video/sound sample, or they're kinda/sorta/semi in the ballpark, but require a lot of tweaking. I understand that we're talking about a lot of variables, like amp, guitar, pickups, etc., but I would like to think that a downloaded patch, played on a similar guitar, would be somewhat close.

Patches are normally just starting points to me- I almost always have to completely redo the amp block to match my taste but you get a lot of great ideas for effects tricks from presets. Presets show me ideas of what is possible and then I can bend them to what I want.

I initially thought that the lack of amp channel switching on the FM3 would be a deal breaker, but it occurred to me that I only use the Clean channel anyway, both for overdrive and clean sounds.

All input is appreciated!

I incorporate tube gear into my axefx3 rig all the time, so I "get it" as far as that goes but I will say that the amp or preamp tones in the FM3 are really good enough that you could be really happy just ignoring the preamp in your tube amp. You can dial up your preamp and then dial the FM3 to sound just like it and then do stuff that you can't do on your preamp. The plain old tube preamp with its regular knobs and limited feature set certainly has an appeal. I spend a lot of time both ways.
 
This setup will work just fine and sound good but it will be limiting. The real amps' poweramp will add its own effect on the sound and the cab will heavily effect how the whole thing sounds. So as long as you are aware that your Fenders and Voxes are not going to sound that authentic, as long as it sounds good to you it's fine.
I know we always have to say this about running into a tube poweramp and cabinet, but as a counterpoint, I will add that your fenders and voxes will still sound AMAZING. There are ten universes of tone in that rig!

I'd encourage people who love a real tube amp and are trying to incorporate a Fractal not to get too hung up on this issue of the compromise of not running FRFR. Its still awesome and it has its own advantages.
 
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