New guy - on the fence about an FM3

PowerTube

PowerTube

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Hi, all. New guy, first post. Some of you may know me from other guitar/amp forums. Heaven knows I've been on plenty of them over the years.

As the title says, I'm on the fence about an FM3. The YouTube demos I've heard have sounded phenomenal. Maybe the following questions will get me off the fence!

Question #1: If I get one, I'll be running it across a half stack, either a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100 with a 1960A cab or a Carvin X100B with Carvin 4x12. In either case, I'll be using 4-cable method (4CM). I'm not inclined at this point to invest the additional money into a dedicated power amp and monitors. The question is, how much do I lose in sound quality by doing it this way, as opposed to going with a power amp and monitors? To clarify, I really don't care about stereo.

Question #2: In your experience, how accurate do downloaded patches sound on your rig? I currently run a Boss GT-100 across the Marshall, and I've had Line 6 gear in the past. Downloaded patches, for me, have been very iffy at best. They'll either sound nothing like the video/sound sample, or they're kinda/sorta/semi in the ballpark, but require a lot of tweaking. I understand that we're talking about a lot of variables, like amp, guitar, pickups, etc., but I would like to think that a downloaded patch, played on a similar guitar, would be somewhat close.

I initially thought that the lack of amp channel switching on the FM3 would be a deal breaker, but it occurred to me that I only use the Clean channel anyway, both for overdrive and clean sounds.

All input is appreciated!
 
I can't speak to #1 as I play exclusively through FRFR cabs (Atomic CLR). As far as #2 is concerned, my experience is largely the same as yours. To make matters worse, most commercial presets are demoed through FRFRs and will likely sound different again through a power amp/guitar cab. However, most can be tweaked to where you want them to be.
 
Knaggster said:
I can't speak to #1 as I play exclusively through FRFR cabs (Atomic CLR). As far as #2 is concerned, my experience is largely the same as yours. To make matters worse, most commercial presets are demoed through FRFRs and will likely sound different again through a power amp/guitar cab. However, most can be tweaked to where you want them to be.
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Thanks. I can't say that this surprises me, because every modeler I've had in the past was the same way.

:)
 
Question 1: I don't follow your question. Using 4CM would mean using your Marshall preamp. But using an FM3 with a power amp would mean using the preamp in the FM3. Are you asking how well the FM3 emulates your Marshall?

Question 2: FAS modelers go through firmware updates that often change the sound of presets. For that reason alone, the sound of a downloaded preset will generally sound different than the demo. Add to that the vagaries of your setup and you'll find you're in for fair bit of tweaking even under the best of circumstances.
 
GlennO said:
Question 1: I don't follow your question. Using 4CM would mean using your Marshall preamp. But using an FM3 with a power amp would mean using the preamp in the FM3. Are you asking how well the FM3 emulates your Marshall?

Question 2: FAS modelers go through firmware updates that often change the sound of presets. For that reason alone, the sound of a downloaded preset will generally sound different than the demo. Add to that the vagaries of your setup and you'll find you're in for fair bit of tweaking even under the best of circumstances.
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The way I'm doing it now with the GT-100 is using the preamp of the Marshall on all but a few presets. It allows you to either use your amp's preamp or run the GT-100 preamps directly to the power amp, depending on where you place it in the chain.

Or am I mistaken about this? Does 4CM actually use the amp's preamp all the time? I'm not 100% clear. I know that if I run only to the effects return, it bypasses it.
 
I use shared presets for ideas, not results. Everyone’s setup is different so I find it rare that any preset sounds as expected on my setup regarding tone. I like to see how others route blocks, create effects and things like that. Amp tone for me rarely translates to my setup.

You won’t “lose sound quality” using 4CM, but you may lose tone flexibility/option when over 1/2 of your tone creation won’t change (power amp and cab are always the same). That said, for example, I always use the same IRs so that part of my fully modeled sound doesn’t change either.

Many use 4CM or other real gear very successfully so I wouldn’t worry about that.

If anything be prepared to make your own tones and presets with your setup, as factory and many other presets were designed for full modeling.
 
PowerTube said:
I initially thought that the lack of amp channel switching on the FM3 would be a deal breaker, but it occurred to me that I only use the Clean channel anyway, both for overdrive and clean sounds.
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The FM3 can switch Amp block channels just like the larger units. The difference is it only has one Amp block, whereas the larger units have the DSP to process two Amp blocks at the same time without sacrificing the quality.

Re: question #1, you’re not going to use the FM3 to its full potential with that sort of rig because you shouldn’t use Amp or Cab blocks in 4-cable method. Of course you can do whatever you want but I wouldn’t go that route; the FM3 will only be used for effects, not amp, cab and effects modeling. See chapter 4 in the manual for recommended configurations, particularly p. 36.
 
PowerTube said:
The way I'm doing it now with the GT-100 is using the preamp of the Marshall on all but a few presets. It allows you to either use your amp's preamp or run the GT-100 preamps directly to the power amp, depending on where you place it in the chain.

Or am I mistaken about this? Does 4CM actually use the amp's preamp all the time? I'm not 100% clear. I know that if I run only to the effects return, it bypasses it.
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You can set it up to run the amp preamp, or the modeling, or even mix them. Problem is the modeling is preamp+power amp.

I use 4CM exclusively with an EVH 5150iii 6L6 50 watt
 
Severed said:
You can set it up to run the amp preamp, or the modeling, or even mix them. Problem is the modeling is preamp+power amp.

I use 4CM exclusively with an EVH 5150iii 6L6 50 watt
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That sounds good.

How do you like your rig, doing it this way? I'm happy with my GT-100 in 4CM across the Marshall.
 
PowerTube said:
That sounds good.

How do you like your rig, doing it this way? I'm happy with my GT-100 in 4CM across the Marshall.
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I love it man.

I'm also just using a 212 pine cab loaded with an G12EVH and V30.

I can dial in everything from country to thrash metal.

I went all in in 2013 with an Axe-Fx II/ MFC-101 and pair of Atomic CLR active wedges. That was wonderful for a few years, but alas missed the raw tone, feel and response of a traditional setup and the interaction with the guitar. Plus in reality, it wasn't less gear, it was about the same.

I've also been a Marshall guy most my life, but grabbed this EVH in 2018 and it finally was the amp I'd been searching for my entire life.

I use the FM3 for all processing with 2 expression pedals, and I'm just doing classic hard rock and pop covers these days.

I also made duplicate presets with modeling for at home silent practice, and it's great.

Anyways, the FM3 is great but the only thing is if you're wanting to do massive all in one kitchen sink presets, you might want to look at the fm9 or Axe-Fx III
 
Severed said:
Anyways, the FM3 is great but the only thing is if you're wanting to do massive all in one kitchen sink presets, you might want to look at the fm9 or Axe-Fx III
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My thing at the moment is that I just want a better sound quality than the GT-100 gives me. Most of the effects are nice, but the amp models leave a bit to be desired.
 
la szum said:
I'd steer clear of the dreaded 4CM method and just run the FM3 into the FX Return of your Amp. I think
you'll get better results and also eliminate any of the potential hum/ground loop issues. The Marshalls
in the FM# are stellar.
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I agree and this is what I do:
Output 1 (which is a pair of XLR jacks) to FOH & Monitors, Output 2 (which is a pair of 1/4" jacks) to effects return of backline amp(s).
You have independent control of both Output 1 and 2.
It's definitely the way to go.
 
You ever have to tweak your presets depending on the backline amps supplied to you, Bill?

Also, curious what kind of backline do you request, or get stuck with. :)
 
As for presets translating into your own rig, I have found they rarely sound exactly like the recorded examples. They need to be adjusted for your room, guitars, playing style, and speakers. This thing sounds like a tube amp, and it’s the best guitar gadget ever built, aside from its more expensive brothers. I’m a long time tube amp nut, building my own for years. I plugged into one of my amps recently, a Plexi-ish 50 watt built on my old Carvin X100B chassis and iron, and yes it sounded great. But it can only sound like what it is. The FM3 can sound like anything. I love this thing and it inspires me to play. Best money I have ever spent on my little guitar world.
 
My main set up is a Victory using 4cm with an Fm9 - however I did use the Fm3 prior. I think the DA converters are great and I really cannot tell any difference in sound loss. Although I do not use the 9 as a modeler per se - basically just for effects/flexibility. With my III I did try out using amp models and powering them through the Victory head, but I really don't need all of that "detail" since the Victory just does what I need. There might be a Victory model coming soon, so I may try the III in the studio then.

I used a JCM 2000 a while back - I could see it working pretty much the same. The biggest thing is to make sure you have a Hum X as I find the 4cm introduces a fair amount of noise - at least it has for me so I keep the X on standby if I need it - which is almost always.
 
I used to use Line 6 gear and Marshall JCM900s into 1936 cabs. Now I use the FM3 into the fx return of the Marshalls and 1936 cabs. The Marshall tones in the FM3 are extremely good. My personal favorite is the Atomica which is a model of a modded Marshall.

Most presets will be built for the whole signal chain and you would have to remove the pre amp, power amp, and cab emulations since you already will have that with your rig.

Fractal has some top notch effects and their reverb and delays are amazing. But you may want to at least try the amp modeling with power amp and cab emulations turned off through your rig. That's what I do and I wish I could buy a Marshall that sounded that good.
 
la szum said:
You ever have to tweak your presets depending on the backline amps supplied to you, Bill?

Also, curious what kind of backline do you request, or get stuck with. :)
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No, I ask for a pair of JCM-900's (which most backline companies seem to have) and they sound pretty consistent. I plug them into a pair of Marshall 4x12 cabs. I turn them up via the 900's master volume (which controls the return level of the amp) until they're just loud enough so I can get some feedback when needed.
I'm in Fractal heaven!!
 
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