New format for IRs in FW 10?

Patzag

Patzag

Fractal Fanatic
Apparently, the IRs now have a new format.
Converting a new IR with AOMDSP yields a strange result.
I downloaded Sean's Port City Cab IRs (thanks Sean) and the format is also different than the old impulse-looking IRs.
Cliff mentions that the new IRs cannot be converted to Wav (TGP).

So do we have a new format now for IRs in V10 and is there some kind of utility that could be had to convert the IR to a Wav file?

I was trying to make a cab audition by using the external FX loop to route signal into Logic and use Space Designer as my cab. This would allow me to audition lots of cabs or mixes easily and then drop the ones I want in the user slots. The new IR format being inconvertible makes this approach unworkable.

Any other ideas for a quick audition of IRs?

Is it possible to dump 50 user cabs at the same time to slots 50-100?
 
Patzag said:
Apparently, the IRs now have a new format.
Converting a new IR with AOMDSP yields a strange result.
I downloaded Sean's Port City Cab IRs (thanks Sean) and the format is also different than the old impulse-looking IRs.
Cliff mentions that the new IRs cannot be converted to Wav (TGP).

So do we have a new format now for IRs in V10 and is there some kind of utility that could be had to convert the IR to a Wav file?

I was trying to make a cab audition by using the external FX loop to route signal into Logic and use Space Designer as my cab. This would allow me to audition lots of cabs or mixes easily and then drop the ones I want in the user slots. The new IR format being inconvertible makes this approach unworkable.

Any other ideas for a quick audition of IRs?

Is it possible to dump 50 user cabs at the same time to slots 50-100?
Click to expand...

Woah really? That's quite interesting! o_O Also hope you dig those cabs
 
Patzag said:
Apparently, the IRs now have a new format.
Converting a new IR with AOMDSP yields a strange result.
I downloaded Sean's Port City Cab IRs (thanks Sean) and the format is also different than the old impulse-looking IRs.
Cliff mentions that the new IRs cannot be converted to Wav (TGP).

So do we have a new format now for IRs in V10 and is there some kind of utility that could be had to convert the IR to a Wav file?

I was trying to make a cab audition by using the external FX loop to route signal into Logic and use Space Designer as my cab. This would allow me to audition lots of cabs or mixes easily and then drop the ones I want in the user slots. The new IR format being inconvertible makes this approach unworkable.

Any other ideas for a quick audition of IRs?

Is it possible to dump 50 user cabs at the same time to slots 50-100?
Click to expand...

You can copy and paste 50 cabs together in one step with the axe manage part of AE1.9. I did that to go through the new Fractal cab pack. Worked with no issues.

With different IR format you mean the ones in the new pack or where else are fractal IRs available as syx files, so we can have a look at them? You could make IRs visible by using Albert A's IR converter....this one is a bit older and when it can read the IR it should be a normal IR.
 
666was999 said:
You can copy and paste 50 cabs together in one step with the axe manage part of AE1.9. I did that to go through the new Fractal cab pack. Worked with no issues.

With different IR format you mean the ones in the new pack or where else are fractal IRs available as syx files, so we can have a look at them? You could make IRs visible by using Albert A's IR converter....this one is a bit older and when it can read the IR it should be a normal IR.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip on AE. I'll do that.
The new IRs and those captured by Sean are all of the new format type it looks like. I used Arbert's utility and Space designer and they both show a new format.
 
Nice. I got similar pictures when I tried to TMA internal cabs and saved them as a user cab to have a look at the response curves. And I couldn't say why. Since that I had been thinking that I would do something wrong with the TMA or it would be a malfunction of the TMA or of the TMA to cab convereter or AE's cab export function could be flawed, so I couldn't even say where there could be a bug. I would never have come to the conclusion that there is a different format now.
Hm, if there is really a new format, then what can we use now to have a look at the curves and what software will work with that format for mixing?
 
Yes, the capability converting Axe-Fx .syx cab IRs into .wav Format is gone ;( Not only for the new IRs from the producer pack option, also for selfmade IRs with the IR-Capture tool from the Axe-Fx II or exported IRs from TMA Block.

I`m hopefully that this will have something to do with perhaps a intermediate step to enhance the CAB simulation in the axe-fx, perhaps a first step to the idea, to link dedicated speaker impedance/resonance curves to the speaker tab in the Amp-Block.

Unfortunately i have the impression, that this is the result of protection strategy from FAS.
In fact, this protection is a step backwards for Users capabilities, e.g. who wants to use selfmade IRs with the Axe in his DAW.

A step backwards in respect to freedom of choice.

Comparison:

"old" IR-capture of Behringer GI100 Speaker simulation with IR-capture tool:
GI100%20IR-Capture.JPG


"new" IR-capture of Behringer GI100 Speaker simulation with IR-capture tool (FW10.05):
GI100%20IR-CAPTURE%20FW10.JPG


exported IR from TMA Block, matched in LIVE mode
GI100-TMALIVE.JPG


exported IR from TMA Block, matched in OFFLINE mode
GI100-TMAOFFLINE.JPG



If this all matters because of the new FAS IR Producer Packs i wish they increase their pack-price $10 and give back the freedom of choice HOW and WHERE you will work with their IRs or with my, your, our won selfmade IRs, shooted with the axe-fx IR-capture.

I wrote that also here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/news/...lspring-sound-now-available-5.html#post849682

I really love the Axe-Fx but this new philosophy is not what i expect from the great and loved philosophy, giving Customers the most powerful tool with the maximum freedom of choices and freedom how you work and use the axe (also with third party equipment). ... sorry, but i have to say that:

This is not only a new IR format. This is a change in philosophy of the Axe-Fx II.

(this statement is as long my conclusion, as long it`s not clearified that this format-changing is technical driven and not marketing wise)
 
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First of all - I'm not an expert, but maybe this is could be also an improvement. It looks like something near "OLA convolution" - this is a technique to save up CPU power requirement....since MIMIC and the amp block need more CPU power than before, this could be a handy reason for their new double-sized resolution (from 1024 to 2048 IRs) working with less CPU.....

Just conspiracy...sorry ;)
 
Morphosis said:
... sorry, but i have to say that:

This is not only a new IR format. This is a change in philosophy of the Axe-Fx II.

(this statement is as long my conclusion, as long it`s not clearified that this format-changing is technical driven and not marketing wise)
Click to expand...

Seems to me your conclusion is based only upon your own ideas, not any statement made by FAS. This is how rumors start and technical threads devolve into flame, controversy and eventually name calling. As the OP, I'd like polemic to stay out of this and only constructive comments to be introduced into the thread. Thanks.

666 - thanks for the Axe Manage tip. This solved my issue entirely for auditioning. For mixing, I can use dual stereo cabs if I have to. But in the meantime, this works great.
 
Patzag said:
Seems to me your conclusion is based only upon your own ideas, not any statement made by FAS.
Click to expand...
That`s totally correct.

Patzag said:
This is how rumors start and technical threads devolve into flame, controversy and eventually name calling. As the OP, I'd like polemic to stay out of this and only constructive comments to be introduced into the thread. Thanks.
Click to expand...

hm, i understand what you say and under normal circumstances i totally agree. BUT: Instead of rumors i post plot-shots. Secondly, i won`t flame, but a open minded constructive discussion should be worth and allowded. Furthermore, "polemic" does really don`t come in my mind, when i wrote that, nor when i read now my words again. I wrote, that i hope, that these changes based on technical reasons and will for improvement. And i state also, that my conclusion (my personal, subjective conclusion - YES) fall in the moment, anybody can argument with facts, that i am wrong. And anybody means, IMHO, exactly one person on this planet ;)

Opinions which are based on facts, everybody can check for himself, should be ok. This has nothing to do with flaming anything. If people think they can now, because of my argumentation - than they are stupid as long, as they can confirm any facts. Right?

What i want is an answer WHY these oviously change of IR formating are made, because this change impact a limitation for usability, IMHO. That`s the point.
 
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Morphosis said:
hm, i understand what you say and under normal circumstances i totally agree. BUT: Instead of rumors i post plot-shots. Secondly, i won`t flame, but a open minded constructive discussion should be worth and allowded. Furthermore, "polemic" does really don`t come in my mind, when i wrote that, nor when i read now my words again. I wrote, that i hope, that these changes based on technical reasons and will for improvement. And i state also, that my conclusion (my personal, subjective conclusion - YES) fall in the moment, anybody can argument with facts, that i am wrong. And anybody means, IMHO, exactly one person on this planet ;)

Opinions which are based on facts, everybody can check for himself, should be ok. This has nothing to do with flaming anything. If people think they can now, because of my argumentation - than they are stupid as long, as they can confirm any facts. Right?

What i want is an answer WHY these oviously change of IR formating are made, because this change impact a limitation for usability, IMHO. That`s the point.
Click to expand...

I'm tracking with you. I which case, may I respectfully suggest that your post should have simply read:

"Here's the old format" [Picture] "here's the new format" [Picture]. "Can someone with full knowledge of facts explain why the format changed as I now cannot use the IRs I shoot with other software?" [END POST]

Instead, you chose to suggest that a new philosophy was being implemented at FAS. People should ask the questions they have and then get answers and facts, if FAS cares to answer or comment - which is their prerogative, rather than use invented rumors as a method of coercing answers (similar to what some other poster did on the MFC availability thread). It's just not straight. And that's not my opinion, it's a fact.
 
OK, we all want an explanation what it's for any why it's better. But I would'n guess it is because of marketing reasons. That would be new. The FAS marketing as I understand it is pretty simple: They try to always have a superior product, so the competitors can't keep up. Should work...ok, it must be better in the customers eyes, that's a bit more complicated.

So my guess is that there are any technical reasons, maybe to save space, save processing power or to improve the classic IR concept into something with more dimensions. Guessing will not get us anywhere I guess, right?
 
Patzag said:
"Here's the old format" [Picture] "here's the new format" [Picture]. "Can someone with full knowledge of facts explain why the format changed as I now cannot use the IRs I shoot with other software?"
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This! You`re right. Thanks.
 
FractalAudio said:
The format was changed because in rare cases a sample value would exceed the allowed digital representation. This rarely happens with cabs but if you do IRs of preamps or other less conventional things this can happen. The new format doesn't suffer from this problem.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the explanation. All clear. It would be great if there was a working format conversion utility so that we can still do experimentation with wav files. I can live without it, of course, but it would be appreciated.
 
Patzag said:
Thank you very much for the explanation. All clear. It would be great if there was a working format conversion utility so that we can still do experimentation with wav files. I can live without it, of course, but it would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

+1
 
If you can't convert the new IRs into wav, it still possible to create an IR with a computer, then convert the wav file to .syx using AOM and send that to the axe-fx?
 
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