New cab IR feature or "Why I hope it didn't take too much room"

Dpoirier said:
Famous last words... we were told the same thing about the Ultra approximately 6 months before it got discontinued...
(slaps on asbestos suit and runs for cover)
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Oh no...he has discovered our secret plan....

350729-mrburns.gif
 
Scott Peterson said:
I can see the thought making sense; but remember there are more things to shoot IR's of than just cabs (not that there is anything wrong with that though...).

These can be used for match EQ, any sort of outboard gear, etc, etc.. And they can be shared by other users as freely as we can share presets.
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+1

taking an IR with the new feature is really as easy as A B C. and I'm not only talking about cabs here where you might need an ok mic, but any kind of outboard gear. so you like how you Axe sounds running through preamp X ...? just IR it and you're ready to go...
 
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CAN an IR then "emulate" or ie make the sound of a preamp eg. someone out there has a Engl Invader, can the IR this and I use it as a setting for an actual gain sound? not just the cab sound?
 
symphx said:
CAN an IR then "emulate" or ie make the sound of a preamp eg. someone out there has a Engl Invader, can the IR this and I use it as a setting for an actual gain sound? not just the cab sound?
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No. "Gain" (when talking amp distortion) is non-linear. An IR is strictly linear, it can't imitate the way your amp crunches and squashes your guitar signal. Think of it just as a name for a really complex EQ preset. It can do anything an EQ can do, which is actually quite a lot in this context.

I'm expecting it to be a really useful tool for "profiling" a rig. Getting the exact mic'd cab sound you're after, and then combining it with supposedly the most awesomest amp modeling ever, should get you extremely close to your target sound.
 
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SO, an IR is really the equivalent of an EQ setting???

I don't get it. I've tried to read on this and understand just what an IR is, but I'm just as confused as before I started researching it.

IR stands for "impluse response", ok, got that. But what I don't understand is what it actually is "imitating"? Take an IR of an acoustic guitar for example...will having an IR of an acoustic guitar make your electric guitar sound like that acoustic you made the IR from? Is it like a synthesizer where you take a sample of something and it then uses the guitar input as a simple trigger, much like playing the different keys on the keyboard?

Is there a laymans terms explanation of this anywhere? I read the wiki and other posts, but am still no closer to understanding just what an IR is, and how it can be used to get a particular sound...

Brian
 
BrianJ said:
SO, an IR is really the equivalent of an EQ setting???

I don't get it. I've tried to read on this and understand just what an IR is, but I'm just as confused as before I started researching it.

IR stands for "impluse response", ok, got that. But what I don't understand is what it actually is "imitating"? Take an IR of an acoustic guitar for example...will having an IR of an acoustic guitar make your electric guitar sound like that acoustic you made the IR from? Is it like a synthesizer where you take a sample of something and it then uses the guitar input as a simple trigger, much like playing the different keys on the keyboard?

Is there a laymans terms explanation of this anywhere? I read the wiki and other posts, but am still no closer to understanding just what an IR is, and how it can be used to get a particular sound...

Brian
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You and me Brother! I thought I was the only one who keeps reading what the definition of an "IR" is and I still have no clue what the hell it does? There are a lot of people extremely happy about being able to capture them with the new firmware update so it sounds like its a good thing but I am still clueless, good to hear Im not alone & the only ra-tard! :?
 
Hi Brian and fullsizedog,
it might perhaps help seeing it this way: any device through which a sound signal can pass treats any frequency in a certain way: attenuates some, empathizes others... and may have some characteristic frequencies (think of a violin for example).

The IR is a file which contains the response (ie the sound) the device gave when someone made an impulse pass through it. The impulse is a very short signal (milliseconds) which contains lots of frequencies. If you record (with a theoretically neutral microphone) the response, ie the device's output when you input the impulse, this response will contain the sonic DNA of the device, or the way the device treats each frequency.
If you have a virtual chain of devices and can use your IR as one of the blocks, the IR will give the sound its character (the character of the device you took the IR from).

As you can imagine, it's not really like a synth. It's more like changing the virtual body of a guitar in a Variax: if you virtually build a guitar with a violin body (if this possibility is given in software) your sound will have some of the typical resonances and woodeness (?) of a violin. But the attack, the decay and all the envelope parameters will still be those of the input signal, ie of the real instrument you're feeding the software with.
 
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^^^ interesting...

Ok, I can see how this would effect the sound...say, using an IR of a violin...now, i'm a little confused about the difference between an IR and a CAB block...in other words, are all the different cabinet options we have just IR's of those cabinets? Do you have BOTH a cab and an IR?
 
BrianJ said:
^^^ interesting...

Ok, I can see how this would effect the sound...say, using an IR of a violin...now, i'm a little confused about the difference between an IR and a CAB block...in other words, are all the different cabinet options we have just IR's of those cabinets? Do you have BOTH a cab and an IR?
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the Cab block contains IRs, provided by FAS, third parties or users. it may as well be called IR block, but I gues that would be confusing to most guitarists :). additionally the Cab block of course contains some very Cab specific parameters, as in microphone options etc.

in the old days, meaning "cab simulators", in very basic terms, cabs were simulated with "just" EQs, preset to emulate the real world counterpart. IRs are obviously much more realistic, as they contain "real" information or more precise information if you will. however, and that should be kept in mind when this new Axe feature goes out soon, IRs CAN NOT capture distortion. so...you can't shoot an impulse through a TS9 and expect the outcome to sound like that. the EQ yes, but no drive...
 
^^^ Ok...I'm starting to get it I think...

But why would you need to IR an EQ? That doesn't really make sense to me? Or do you mean to say that you could, say, mic a particular guitar piece and the IR would derive the EQ setting that would sound like that...frequency wise at least...I realize you'd still have to match the distortion etc.etc.

If that's what you mean, then it would be possible to listen to a piece of music that only had a heavy rythmn guitar that you liked the sound of, and it would EQ your favorite patch to those frequencies to make those patches sound like the sampled patch?
 
you see, when you want the sound of a guitar cab, the way you hear it on records for example, there's much more involved than just the cab. first the cab has its own sound (EQ), the mic used to mic it (EQ), mic preamp, mixing desk...all adds up and the IR captures all that, very precisely.

what you're referring to in your post above, that's known as matching EQs. Match EQ's analyze a recording and then generate an EQ curve from that which can be applied to your recording for example. a little different to the IR techniqye, as you can not shoot an impulse through an already recorded piece of music, only through the recording path that was used to create that sound. let's say by a stroke of luck you happen to be in the same studio as your favourite guitar player...his rig is all set up for recording...you could capture that path with an impulse and apply it later to your amp (cab block)...

hope that clears it up just a bit.
 
BrianJ said:
^^^ Ok...I'm starting to get it I think...
But why would you need to IR an EQ? That doesn't really make sense to me?
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...because some EQs can just add that little bit of magic to your tone. some recording engineers are very specific with using certain EQs, because of their very specific sound. some use vintage Neves etc... if you'd take an IR from that specific setting, you could apply it to your sound, same as used in that studio situation, you know ? of course there's no "need" to do anything, it's all about options...
 
+1 on the idea of being able to invert an IR, if it would allow me to neutralize the sound of the real EVM12L cab I use when I'd rather use a cab sim... very cool. Maybe an "Invert" parameter could be added to the Cab block?
 
Doesn't an impulse response also capture an element of time? If you use a full length, third party speaker IR in a DAW you hear some of the room, if I'm not mistaken. Other IR's are used in convolution engines to simulate the reverberation of different spaces.

Terry.
 
BrianJ said:
But why would you need to IR an EQ? That doesn't really make sense to me? Or do you mean to say that you could, say, mic a particular guitar piece and the IR would derive the EQ setting that would sound like that...frequency wise at least...I realize you'd still have to match the distortion etc.etc.
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It will make perfect sense real fast if you know what a guitar sounds like after the amp, but before the cab. Horribly thin and fizzy, right? Try using a "normal" EQ, if you will, and make it sound like a mic'd guitar amp on a record. Pretty laborious and the results will almost certainly be less than stellar. The IR can create a snapshot of any cab - mic'd just right - and recreate that sound perfectly, instantly, every time.

Does it make sense now?

And the cab (+ other EQ) is really at least 50% of getting the sound you're after. The amp provides the feel and the response, the cab (or IR) is where "the sound" comes from. Well, that was an overstatement maybe, but it is a crucial piece of the puzzle.

EDIT:
Sorry, I might've misunderstood as being more lost than you were. I'll leave this up anyway, as an attempt at more "layman's terms".
 
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Tone Seeker said:
Doesn't an impulse response also capture an element of time? If you use a full length, third party speaker IR in a DAW you hear some of the room, if I'm not mistaken. Other IR's are used in convolution engines to simulate the reverberation of different spaces.

Terry.
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you're correct. IRs are very often used to capture Reverb units, but depending on the length of the Reverb the IR is going to be a lot longer than an IR of a Cab or any other outboard gear.
 
Beefcake said:
It will make perfect sense real fast if you know what a guitar sounds like after the amp, but before the cab. Horribly thin and fizzy, right? Try using a "normal" EQ, if you will, and make it sound like a mic'd guitar amp on a record. Pretty laborious and the results will almost certainly be less than stellar. The IR can create a snapshot of any cab - mic'd just right - and recreate that sound perfectly, instantly, every time.

Does it make sense now?
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Lol...I was just thinking, "this might help if I could play with an IR and see how it affects the sound..." Your above statement makes perfect sense...thank you!

Brian
 
Ok I think I understand a bit more than I did yesterday (I think, maybe not, lol), Thanks to all for the response's.

Correct me please if Im wrong, an IR is the Cab portion of the cab block. Once you insert a newly captured IR into your axe you still can change the mike type and placement ect...

Questions:

If you capture an IR with a mike 3' from a cabinet will you have this airy/spacial sound right from the start even if on your cab block you have the mike spacing and room size set to 0% ?

Does it matter what quality of mike you use to capture an IR?

Does the brand/type/quality of mike you use to capture the IR effect the results?

If you capture an IR with lets say a 57 and then use a UB7 COND in the block it will change the sound as if you captured it with a UB7.

Am I really going to be able to make "in my basement, 57 mike" any IRs that are better (or even as good as) any of the IRs already in the axe or available from RW or OH?

I think Im still lost just not as deep in the woods as I used to be, but than again my compass could be off, lol!


EDITED:
if an IR is indeed the "CAB" portion of the cab block
when you select cabinets in the AF you can choose between 1x,2x,4x ect... speaker configurations. how do you capture multiple speakers with an IR, obvious answer is position the mike further away from the cab, but wouldn't this give to much spacial tone to the IR ? Any time I recoded (with my limited experience) in a studio I just miked close to one speaker how do you get the sound or how does if differ between a 1x12, 2x12 4x12 ect....

Im lost again
 
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