New brand extended and flat response Active Neodymium pickups. Perfect for axe fx?

Cycfi XR

"21st Century Pickups for the Modern Guitar Player"

These look really interesting. They have are super clean and they have an array of their own active electronics. These pickups are designed very unconventionally. like. The geometry of the pickup their magnets(neodymium) and Sidewound humbucking series phase-opposing design makes me think they are trying to accomplish something similar to q tuner. Each humbucker is actual a sidewound single coil size, and in addition they offer quad coil models that fit conventional humbucker routings up to 10 string.

Here is a video Strandberg posted a couple of days ago of the pickups installed in an 8 string multiscale and being played through bias.
[video]https://youtu.be/FXCyNwKtesM[/video]

They claim virtually flat response from 20hz to 20kz. Im not sure how accurate their frequency response graph is or if its fake.... it looks that flat. But if these are really like that with no noise they deliver the ultimate low noise, high output dynamic pickup. With totally flat frequency response and their ridiculous pickup swithing options offered and an active resonance filter you can wire in seems like you could construct almost any sort of sound with axe fx. It would also be great because the pickup noise is so low but output so high and flat response you'd have alot less need for gate. You could eq it up with the active resonance filter and axe to sound however you want with no noise and drive the hell out of it and add what kind of noise you want, or play with a huge amount of gain much more clearly than normal pickups and get stunning sounds and definition really no other pickups offer with that low level of noise. Other than qtuners I can't think of any other magnetic guitar pickups that come close to these in clarity and extension is qtuners, but those can be quite a wild beast to tame for alot of people and really far too bright for most people and they probably don't send out as good of a signal in as these because these have an active preamp attached. This could really bring out

I already have qtuners. They are great but not without drawbacks. They have amazing extension but even they only have 4 octave bandwidth. 20-20 pickups Probably will not sound good to alot of people because they aren't used to guitar sounding like that but it seems like with these the flexibility and power and axe fx would be magnified many times over. I mean, assuming the performance is anywhere near what they claim and they aren't exaggerating a bit or flat out lying virtually noisless active pickups without the dynamics of something like alumitone or q tuner, rather than the over compressed nature of emg(emg 81 clips like every note) and duncan active pickups imagine the signal integrity. IF you don't like that wide a bandwidth you can easily make it sound more like conventional guitar pickups or anything else for that matter, but you will also have acess to super clean 20-20 sound. This is amazing for extended range players as they will get much stronger level of fundamentals and have the option to shape their tone to suit whatever type of sound they want at the time. Probably would naturally wanna 24db per octave highpass at like anywhere lower than your guitars fundamental lowest frequency to keep things clean as there isn't necessarily anything good going on down there you wanna hear. But in the other direction this would seem to be different. Sure maybe you think its to bright or don't want to hear harmonics that high at such a high level but you can low pass or shelf down higher frequencies and shape mids and lows within your playing range however you want. Imagine how much more of your guitar you will hear. All the Little nuances resulting from the physical form, the engineering of your guitar would be there, much more transparent. I imagine the effects tonewoods, or composites would have would be much more readily noticeable in flat mode. Everything from the strings you use to the pick you playing style, the way you fret, your frets, nut, bridge, type of guitar(neck through set neck and bolt on) to the fretboard would become more apparent and have a much greater effect on the tone that comes out of your guitar. Every guitar would sound much more unique and identifiable from another, Even two of the exact same guitars from the same run or different years would become more distinguishable from one another. This is sorta the opposite of emg81's where you put em in a guitar and it feels like it makes them sound more like each other. That's great in some sense because you can put 81's in a relatively less well crafted guitar and you know what you're getting if you like that sound and you can save money tone wise. Not to say there isn't a noticable difference between guitars with 81s but a schecter, is gonna sound alot more like a strat, is gonna sound like a less paul, is gonna sound like an ibanez alot more so with an 81 than most other pickups and the opposite of the XR pickups.

Totally transparent pickups are great for well built guitars that you love the sound of through and through. I imagine it would also make the difference between a squire and a vintage strat so painfully clear you will probably never want to plug the squire in again even with normal pickups back in it because you know how much worse it sounds... Unless you prefer the squire strat in which case you might hate the vintage strat since what you like is subjective(though I think all us who play guitar have been somewhat conditioned not to like the squire to the point that it will automatically sound worse since we believe it is inferior and sounds worse. That makes distaste for its sound much greater to us purely psychologically as we assign negative associations guitars behaving sonically like the squire even if we otherwise wouldn't have inherently disliked certain aspects.
That said, ability to really see/hear a guitar with it's clothes off offers alot of insight. It makes every guitar more special(not that you'll like alot of guitars without nice clothes and makeup). You might find certain production guitars from whatever company whatever year are alot harder to substitute for. All the little things all the naunced sonic behavior of the guitar that give its identiry positive aspects you like about that guitar will be stand out so much more, playing another similar designed guitar might just not feel right the same way people bash on axe fx models because its not exactly the same, except the g3 models are probably alot closer to the amps than similar guitar is to the guitar you can't substitute for by a wide margin. I feel like pickups like this in every guitar would make you really appreciate it much more, both things you do and don't like about it. For alot of us with custom guitars of all sorts it would seem your custom guitar would be even more irreplaceable. If you love playing certain things on it you won't be able to record other guitars or play other guitars and feel at all satisfied with likeness. If you really dig your custom guitar and had it designed a certain way it's like the value of all you paid to get it skyrockets because all the fine craftmanship and engineering shine through blindingly. If you have more than one or two or three or however many custom or production guitars especially extended range than the range of sounds you can get is greatly expanded. You have alot more hardware in your tool box to work with.

If the Cycfi XR turns out to be as good as it looks, in the right hands and used correctly(your guitar won't sound normal) this is a gamechanger just the way axe fx is. Working together, the combo might be like stepping into another universe.
I haven't played or tested any of their pickups so I ultimately don't know for sure if they are as revolutionary as their statements indicate. If I get one i'll let people know. Please anyone who happens to play with one of these xr pickups lemme know how it is. I'm dying to know right now as I might want them in all my guitars even with the pain of changing out some complex electronics and potentially drilling some new holes or having to have more routing done on the guitar.

This could be a true revolution. Like very accurate studio reference monitor for guitars. You get a clear reproduction of exactly how the guitar sounds. Like very accurate reference monitors vs a shitty car stereo. It's just no one ever tried calling a terrible early 90's toyota corrolla vintage and then rig up speakers in future cars to sound as much like it as possible and charge alot for it. Imagine how hard you would laugh if they tried to convince you the crappy 90's car was superior to barefoot monitors or quested or pmc monitors. The corrolla is clearly inferior at reproducing sound accurately. People can still prefer listening in the corolla I guess because its vintage and if they like that sound then that's just there preference but technologically the car sound system is nowhere close to barefoot audio. I feel that's how things are with guitar pickups now, and if this is in anyway close to listening through high quality reference monitors vs shitty car speakers that's a breakthrough in guitar. You are actually hearing the guitar for what it is love or hate. But since you start with a great signal you can always take away from it and modify it to your liking. I mean this is really huge, from what i'm hearing surrounding these pickups if you just want full response of your guitar(maybe a high pass for certain situations) Since this pickup is a preamp you could just go DI to house or recording. But ahh you have axe fx. So you can go DI and hear a faithful representation of your guitar but with axe fx you have so much more to start with theres so much more you can possibly do. A whole new world of guitar sound out there to be explored compared to the one we've been living in The world of listening to our guitar through shitty 90's corolla speakers so to speak.

Oh yeah don't quote me on this but I believe reading that the electronics behind this system were designed to easily accommodate like 27v from 3 9 volt batteries for extra headroom and dynamics...

I'm curious as to thoughts about these new pickups. I'm going to be trying to get ahold of some ASAP!

Here are some links and info from website.
Cycfi XR Technology | Cycfi Research

Cycfi XR Options and Configurations | Cycfi Research







From their website:

The Neo Series Extended Response Pickups utilize low-impedance coils (Lo-Z 350Ω to 500Ω DCR) which inherently have full frequency response from 20Hz to 20kHz and beyond. Unlike traditional high-impedance passive pickups there are no big peaks and dips in the spectrum, typically perceived as the pickup’s “character”. That does not mean that Lo-Z pickups lack character. In fact a Lo-Z coil’s characteristically wide bandwidth gives it a voice all its own. The pickups are very rich in harmonics, with uber-clean sounds, lots of overtones and crystal clear highs. They have a lot more harmonic content than even the bright Stratocaster pickup (which has frequency response that rolls off at around 5KHz.) On the low end of the audio spectrum you get tight, well-defined and focused bass all the way down to 20Hz.

Guitars have their own individual sonic signature, thus the idea of a low-impedance pickup which imparts very little coloration to the guitar sound is appealing if you want to preserve that pure guitar sound. Starting with the unadulterated sound of the guitar, you have full control of what gets filtered. You have the power to achieve whatever tone you want, using appropriate EQ, rather than being limited to a fixed, predetermined guitar tone dictated by the pickup manufacturer. One can always shape the frequency response at any point in the signal chain using various analog or digital filters. Having a wide and flat frequency response gives you total freedom to sculpt the tone.

The use of low impedance pickups is not a new idea. An important example is Les Paul’s favorite guitar and the one he used since the early 1970s: the Les Paul Recording Model. For Les Paul, it’s the the ultimate recording guitar. It was designed to be plugged directly into a mixing console. (Now that’s a cool idea!) The only problem was that only a select few at the time could afford owning a mixing desk. In addition, the output of the low impedance pickups could not sufficiently drive guitar amplifiers like a Marshall (Yet, driving amplifiers into saturation was what people wanted!). Les Paul worked his whole life to get rid of distortion. It took him years to develop low impedance pickups with that bell-like clarity and direct to board recording capability. It did not catch on, perhaps because it was way ahead of its time.

Our Cycfi XR pickups are side-wound humbuckers. Each pickup sports a pair of coils connected series/phase-opposing, like a typical humbucker. This doubles the signal strength while eliminating hum. Our low-impedance coils are already an order of a magnitude less susceptible to hum to begin with compared to traditional high-impedance coils. Add to that the noise cancellation from the humbucking wiring and you are left with a remarkably low noise floor for an expansive dynamic range. These coils are dead quiet!

What’s nice about active, low-impedance pickup design is the compact size. The coils are a mere 5mm tall by 10mm wide. Stick two coils sideways, put adjustable poles in the middle (aligned at right angles) and you can still fit the whole assembly inside a standard single coil footprint with enough space underneath for a preamplifier.

The sidewinder concept is not new. The unusual pickup geometry is decades old, yet there only are only a few examples, including the EB humbucker from Gibson (50s early 60s), the Bicentenial Thunderbird pickup (also from Gibson), Bill Lawrence L-250, the P-90H Humbucker (again Gibson), the Lace “Holy Grail” and the futuristic looking Q-tuner.

Couple a low-noise preamplifier with a low-impedance sidewinder and you now have a dead quiet pickup with very tight bass, pure natural mids and sparkling highs with lots of overtones extending way beyond the range of human hearing. Our pickups utilize ultra low-noise preamplifiers, using modern SMT electronics to boost the level of the Lo-Z signal. In total the Cycfi XR’s offer best-of-class noiseless humbucking, that far exceeds the current generation of pickups.

Want full width humbuckers? That’s no problem with our Cycfi XR Quad Coil series. These pickups produce our unmatched tone in a wide field pickup pattern. The number of tonal combinations is immense when combining these tandem Cycfi XR’s in various ways. Our Quad Coils represent the ultimate low-noise active humbucker. With 4 side-wound coils, they’re humbucking even in split-mode allowing for myriad noiseless switching combinations.




I'm interested to hear what Cliff thinks about the pickups in general and the possibility of people pairing something like this with axe fx and all the new possibilities it might unlock.
 
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Effectively, pickups do not have a 'sound' but a transfer function (skewed frequency response). If these pups deliver the transfer function indicated by their published curve then, in principle, one has a better starting point for emulating any other pickup. All that would be required is to add another pre-EQ. And if one wanted to get super-funky one could send each string to an AF...
 
Guitars sound the way they do because of the limited frequency response of the pickups and the amps they get plugged into.

These pickups will sound different, but not necessarily better, or even useful.

What I mean is, if you mic a snare with an SM57, you'll get the sound you are used to hearing on 1,000 rock albums spanning 40 years or more. If you mic a snare with a flat response full range pink noise microphone, it won't sound like you'd expect it to....at all.....
 
I had Alumitones (Deathbar/XBar) and could never get used to that sound or get the sounds I wanted out of it. Flat response requires further tone shaping down the line, which is going to be much easier with an Axe than normal gear of course.

The Cycfi (ugh, that name) site has some clips. The unshaped tone is very acoustic, similar to a piezo or an acoustic pickup. Isn't this what a Variax is supposed to be all about?
 
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Or just give me a nice guitar with normal pick ups, i have bigger things to worry about

Though on saying that id be interested to see how they pan out
 
im pretty happy with my Joe Satriani Signature JS2410MCO since it switches to single coils, that actually sound really good into the axe fx, one guitar to rule them all in my books, in regards to the axe fx anyhow. Both hum and single are nicely balanced for the axe fx. Thats my 2 cents anyhow. But these here look like a great addition to the choices out there for players. sweet
 
Effectively, pickups do not have a 'sound' but a transfer function (skewed frequency response). If these pups deliver the transfer function indicated by their published curve then, in principle, one has a better starting point for emulating any other pickup. All that would be required is to add another pre-EQ. And if one wanted to get super-funky one could send each string to an AF...

Yeah they make Neodymium pickups for individual strings so you could do that. To bad the axe doesn't have a d25 style connector in back. Could send them all in seperately and perhaps in some future upgrade chise where the signal for each string travels through your grid independantly. And yeah thats what i'm saying. YOu can sound like anything if the pickup really has those specs. vintage, modern pickups, something totally different and weird. Whatever your heart desires.
 
Would interesting to compare them to Lace Alumitones.

I have q tuner and alumitone. Alumitone isn't anywhere near spec this pickup claims. They are effective and fairly clean but lack character. Q tuner is more dynamic and wider bandwidth response and much more clear and surgically precise.
 
Guitars sound the way they do because of the limited frequency response of the pickups and the amps they get plugged into.

These pickups will sound different, but not necessarily better, or even useful.

What I mean is, if you mic a snare with an SM57, you'll get the sound you are used to hearing on 1,000 rock albums spanning 40 years or more. If you mic a snare with a flat response full range pink noise microphone, it won't sound like you'd expect it to....at all.....

^^^
THIS !!!
 
Can you explain a little bit more about what you're thinking of doing regarding EQ? In other words, let's say that you have these pickups in your guitar, what's next regarding your Axe-FX?

Before your AFII 'preamp' stage one can create a 'virtual pickup' by slapping an EQ curve on your signal. What a moment - how about this:

Old setup:
Strat -> SD JB pup -> AFII (preamp+amp+cab) -> world

New setup:
Strat -> Cycfi pup -> AFII (EQ+preamp+amp+cab) -> world
 
As I mentioned in the other thread: it's not just about getting a flat response to allow matching of pickups. You can actually do that already.

There is some other significant factor that is not adressed by just having a flat response pickup:
Your pickups will influence your string just as much as the string influences the pickup. You can't EQ the resulting dynamics.
Also, your whole guitar body will change how your strings resonate. If you equip an LP with Strat pickups, it won't sound like a Strat.

These things should be considered before going crazy about the possibility of IR-shaped pickups. In the end, you will end up with something that sounds similar, but definitely not the same. Just like a Piezo will never sound like a mic'ed acoustic.
 
All of my guitars have a built-in preamp (a requirement of using a Roland GK) with a high input impedance and low output impedance. It eliminates the loading of the cable, causing extended high frequency response. I find myself invariably having to use PEQ blocks to shape the raw pickup response to get a pleasing tone. I'd imagine I'd have to do the same with this type of pickup.

The only way to know is to try it. But "trying out" a pickup is too much of a hassle for me. Interesting though.
 
I've wondered what a hexaphonic pickup would sound like through 6 axe fx's, one axe fx per string, but figured it would be much like Steadystate said. Garbage in the equals garbage out with the axe fx, so peq's would be needed.
 
As I mentioned in the other thread: it's not just about getting a flat response to allow matching of pickups. You can actually do that already.

There is some other significant factor that is not adressed by just having a flat response pickup:
Your pickups will influence your string just as much as the string influences the pickup. You can't EQ the resulting dynamics.
Also, your whole guitar body will change how your strings resonate. If you equip an LP with Strat pickups, it won't sound like a Strat.

These things should be considered before going crazy about the possibility of IR-shaped pickups. In the end, you will end up with something that sounds similar, but definitely not the same. Just like a Piezo will never sound like a mic'ed acoustic.

That wasn't my point. It doesn't have to sound exactly the same. Even when axe didn't sound nearly realistic as it did now it was comparable except I didn't have to have a million dollars to spend on all amps and cabs and effects. Of course this would be perfect but I don't know that I wanted a particular pickup sound because most pickups have disappointed me throughout my life. This would be a welcome change because sounds nothing like an sm57 snare :). In a pinch maybe I could make it sound like a certain pickup. That's close enough for me. I'm more into creating newer sounds. Personal preference so I think these are great. Would they ever eliminate all other pickups, highly doubtful. If I wanted a classic PAF pickup I wouldn't be interested in these pickups though...

And i'm very interested in how such pickups will change the way the guitar body resonates. Especially when it comes to something like a guitar i'm getting like this...
10906544_791864357517641_3349315495162598383_n.jpg
 
That wasn't my point. It doesn't have to sound exactly the same. Even when axe didn't sound nearly realistic as it did now it was comparable except I didn't have to have a million dollars to spend on all amps and cabs and effects. Of course this would be perfect but I don't know that I wanted a particular pickup sound because most pickups have disappointed me throughout my life. This would be a welcome change because sounds nothing like an sm57 snare :). In a pinch maybe I could make it sound like a certain pickup. That's close enough for me. I'm more into creating newer sounds. Personal preference so I think these are great. Would they ever eliminate all other pickups, highly doubtful. If I wanted a classic PAF pickup I wouldn't be interested in these pickups though...
I understand that you don't need a 100% realistic sound to be satisfied; but what you are aiming for in the end is a modelling guitar. Flat pickups will only get you so far, as all they provide are opportunities to EQ. You can already tonematch your pickups to that of another guitar, even without a flat response pickup. I'd even go as far to say that the results would be comparable to what you would get for matching the flat pickups. Because your tonematching will take care of all the dips and peaks in frequency response of your pickup anyway (within limits, of course; it can't add what is not there).

The Axe vs real amp comparison is apples and oranges here. It's more comparable to changing tubes in an analog amp. Which is okay if that is what you're going for.
But for true modelling, you'd need a Variax-like approach involving a synthesizer.

And i'm very interested in how such pickups will change the way the guitar body resonates.
Short answer? Not at all.
Your guitar body resonates with your strings, not with the pickups (Well, not 100% true, as obviously a resonating top will move your pickups up and down on a microscopic level; but that shouldn't matter much unless it's an archtop hollowbody guitar).
 
I understand that you don't need a 100% realistic sound to be satisfied; but what you are aiming for in the end is a modelling guitar. Flat pickups will only get you so far, as all they provide are opportunities to EQ. You can already tonematch your pickups to that of another guitar, even without a flat response pickup. I'd even go as far to say that the results would be comparable to what you would get for matching the flat pickups. Because your tonematching will take care of all the dips and peaks in frequency response of your pickup anyway (within limits, of course; it can't add what is not there).

The Axe vs real amp comparison is apples and oranges here. It's more comparable to changing tubes in an analog amp. Which is okay if that is what you're going for.
But for true modelling, you'd need a Variax-like approach involving a synthesizer.

Short answer? Not at all.
Your guitar body resonates with your strings, not with the pickups (Well, not 100% true, as obviously a resonating top will move your pickups up and down on a microscopic level; but that shouldn't matter much unless it's an archtop hollowbody guitar).

I'm not specifically looking for a modelling guitar/guitar pickup. I really appreciate what a Full Range Flat response could do and would plan to use it just as such or with minor equalization to create sounds I would want that lie outside of current guitar pickups. Being able to emulate other pickups roughly just makes it that much cooler but that is not my interest. I have the finest modeling amp around. I look at these pickups as a step beyond modeling and towards creating new pickup sounds when not totally FRFR. I really could care less about if they could sound like normal pickups. If they can and do it somewhat convincingly with minimal effort then that's just an added benefit in case I were to want that sound every now and then. But I wouldn't be interested in the pickups if that was their selling point or anything other than a consequence that arises from their design.
Even if tone matching can flatten out whatever pickup I have in a guitar like you said it can't create what isn't there. Well in the case of these pickups being 20hz-20khz fully flat I would surmise that there will be alot that isn't there in anyother pickup so recreating them wouldn't be very effective. Besides you don't actually need the axe fx or external EQ to change the character of the XR pickups. They have a handy system for doing it on the guitar within limits if you so desire to install it in the form of their resonant filter system for their pickups.

[URL="http://www.cycfi.com/2015/04/resonant-filter/"]http://www.cycfi.com/2015/04/resonant-filter/[/URL]

Resonant-Filter-Wiring1-1024x683.jpg


Audio sample of the resonant filter system at work.
https://soundcloud.com/cycfi-research/resfilter

Technically speaking, a pickup is an audio voltage source followed by a second-order lowpass filter. The tone (colour) of the pickup is characterised by its cut-off frequency and its resonance contour — the so-called Quality factor or simply Q.

The Resonant Filter allows you to dial in the characteristics of virtually any pickup with two high quality dual-ganged Bourns potentiometers. The Resonant Filter offers independent control of the cutoff-frequency and resonance (Q). The Resonant Filter is a single opamp VCVS second-order low-pass filter design with variable frequency, and variable resonance with constant gain compensation. The circuit utilises the audiophile grade OPA209, a modern precision operational amplifier with very low voltage noise density of 2.2nV/√Hz, and a rail-to-rail output swing with a supply voltage from 4.5 to 36 volts — maximising the dynamic range. The Resonant Filter module connects to the main switch using 3M gold-plated pin connectors. Cables included.

Listen to the Resonant Filter. Starting with maximum resonance (Q) and maximum frequency, I sweep through the frequency range until I find what I want. (It’s easier to find the right cutoff frequency with a high resonance for starters) Finally, I turn down the resonance to achieve the tone desired.

Frequency Control

The Frequency pot controls the cutoff-frequency from 2kHz all the way up to 20kHz. The sweet frequencies from 2kHz to 5kHz give you the classic tones of electric guitars. The human ear is most sensitive in this frequency range. As a rough guide at 2kHz, the tone is characterised as warm and mellow; at 3kHz, brilliant or present; at 4kHz, piercing; and at 5kHz, more brittle and thin.
 
If the XR pickups can do what Q tuners can and even exceed their performance it seems like a no brainer for me to want to have at least a pair.

And listen to and watch what Q-tuner can do :D

http://www.q-tuner.com/demo/OD%20demo%20Super%20High%20Z%20Q-tuner.mp3



So I hope that helps anyone understand my fascination with these new active 220hz-20khz FRFR pickups. Q tuners are amazing. If these XR pickups sound good and can improve on that, its hard not to wanna get my hands on them.
 
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