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"new blocks for sending MIDI and manually controlling the onboard RELAYS"

AndyTNBD

Inspired
I'd like to know about these new blocks for controlling the onboard relays. Will it be one block for relay 1, and one block for relay 2... or will it be a single block for both relays, and will you be able to load up multiple of these blocks into different FX slots, so that you can have a range of permutations across one of the rows?
 

joe rogers

Forum Addict
There is a Relay Block for relay 1, and a separate block for relay two. When the block is in the Disabled state, the relay is "OFF" or open. When the block is in the Enabled state, the relay is in the programmed state: Tip to Sleeve, Ring to Sleeve, or Both. The block has X/Y, so the "On" state can have two different connections. Additionally, each scene change can drive either relay to one of the following states: OFF, Tip to Sleeve, Ring to Sleeve, or Both. Note: using a RELAY block disables scene changes.
 

vangrieg

Forum Addict
Wait, does this mean that if I want to switch my amp within a song with relays I need to occupy two effect slots out of eight??? Or one or of eight if I do it with midi?
 

joe rogers

Forum Addict
Wait, does this mean that if I want to switch my amp within a song with relays I need to occupy two effect slots out of eight??? Or one or of eight if I do it with midi?
No, scene changes can set relay states and send MIDI program changes without using effect blocks.
 

AndyTNBD

Inspired
That is a shame. Ideally I want 4 blocks, and each block being able to address each relay. I don't want to use scenes, because I don't want to lose the effects I've already got activated. I just want to send out pulses to my amp channel change.
 

joe rogers

Forum Addict
That is a shame. Ideally I want 4 blocks, and each block being able to address each relay. I don't want to use scenes, because I don't want to lose the effects I've already got activated. I just want to send out pulses to my amp channel change.
You have 8 scenes per preset. Scenes do not necessarily change any effect unless you want. Additionally, you can use the relay block with X/Y settings allowing for two separate "On" states for the given relay. X/Y can be changed on any block using scenes or "stomp box" mode. If your amp requires a single relay output to transition to all three "On" states (Tip to Sleeve, Ring to Sleeve, and Both) then you will need to use scenes. Otherwise, either option will work for you, and it will be a matter of preference.
 

Karl Houseknecht

Forum Addict
Why does relay control require dedicating an entire block to a switch? So if I'm controlling my amp's channel switching, I'd only be able to use 7 "effects" instead of 8?
 

pauliusmm

Fractal Fanatic
Can you explain this:
Scenes do not necessarily change any effect unless you want.
Unless fx8 scenes are different they do change effects.
For example scene 1 and 2 are identical, i turn on drive and delay in scene 1 and then switch to scene 2 to activate a relay- my drive and delay will switch off.
So if you want to control relays, but do not want to change effects you cannot use scenes?
 

Karl Houseknecht

Forum Addict
I think I see the error of my ways here, but feel free to correct me:

1. Relays can be controlled at the scene level without a relay block.
2. Using a relay block lets you assign a switch, but then you can't use scenes to switch relay state.

Do I have that right?
 

DLC86

Forum Addict
Can you explain this:


Unless fx8 scenes are different they do change effects.
For example scene 1 and 2 are identical, i turn on drive and delay in scene 1 and then switch to scene 2 to activate a relay- my drive and delay will switch off.
So if you want to control relays, but do not want to change effects you cannot use scenes?
That's not how scenes work. A scene remembers the effects on/off and x/y state that you set for that scene, it's like a preset but with the limitations said above. I think you're confusing it with the way the pod hd works, but those aren't scenes, that's a footswitch that can change on/off state of multiple effects within a preset
 

joe rogers

Forum Addict
I think I see the error of my ways here, but feel free to correct me:

1. Relays can be controlled at the scene level without a relay block.
2. Using a relay block lets you assign a switch, but then you can't use scenes to switch relay state.

Do I have that right?
Karl, that is correct.
 

kerrlehr

Veteran
Can you explain this:


Unless fx8 scenes are different they do change effects.
For example scene 1 and 2 are identical, i turn on drive and delay in scene 1 and then switch to scene 2 to activate a relay- my drive and delay will switch off.
So if you want to control relays, but do not want to change effects you cannot use scenes?
This is not how scenes are intended to be used. The whole concept is that if you "turn on drive and delay In scene 1" you would just save that as scene 2. If You then want to change a relay, That is then saved as scene 3, change it again, it is saved as scene 4 and so on. This is how scenes are indented to be used. As a memory of various states of on and off. Otherwise you would be using stomp box mode. A scene is like snap shops of 8 different on and off states of a preset that can be accessed in a single stomp. (think of it as changing a single, or multiple on and off states simultaneously by pushing a single button. Also, you can copy any scene state to any other scene state, so honestly your concern is not applicable to scenes at all. Scenes are not presets, just various states of the same preset. Like little roadies who race down and change a bunch of settings when you click a single button.
 

pauliusmm

Fractal Fanatic
Im not a noob and i know what scenes do. I think your scenario would work if you planned your presets and scenes carefully for each song. I often like to just use one preset and stompbox mode for turning effects on off , so in my case any effects i turned on will be lost if i change a scene.
 
Im not a noob and i know what scenes do. I think your scenario would work if you planned your presets and scenes carefully for each song. I often like to just use one preset and stompbox mode for turning effects on off , so in my case any effects i turned on will be lost if i change a scene.
If you prefer using FX on the fly, why use scenes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Funeral

Fractal Fanatic
If you prefer using FX on the fly, why use scenes?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What does this add to the conversation?
This is why most of the people who know wtf they are talking about don't post anymore.
Just stay on topic and quit acting like little trolls.
 
What does this add to the conversation?
This is why most of the people who know wtf they are talking about don't post anymore.
Just stay on topic and quit acting like little trolls.
Uhm. . . what?

I asked an honest question. Scenes are to eliminate "tap dancing". Some guys prefer tap dancing and turning FX on and off on the fly. If that was what I preferred I wouldn't use scenes. Heck if you want the freedom to sitch amp channels on the fly and not via presets or scenes, why not use the FS that com with the amp?
 
Uhm. . . what?

I asked an honest question. Scenes are to eliminate "tap dancing". Some guys prefer tap dancing and turning FX on and off on the fly. If that was what I preferred I wouldn't use scenes. Heck if you want the freedom to sitch amp channels on the fly and not via presets or scenes, why not use the FS that com with the amp?
I think his point is, since he prefers the tap dancing stomp mode...but wants to switch relays....he needs to give up too many effect blocks to do it since scenes aren't going to work for his method he is stuck using blocks...
 
I think his point is, since he prefers the tap dancing stomp mode...but wants to switch relays....he needs to give up too many effect blocks to do it since scenes aren't going to work for his method he is stuck using blocks...
Makes sense. I was typing while on a bus in a third world country, but I got the impression he was trying to make scenes work for switching amp channels. I totally get him wanting to "tap dance" and was just saying that tap dancing and scenes can be mutually exlusive. I was under the impression that the blocks for relays do not count as "effects" blocks. I don't see how triggering a relay would eat DSP for example.

I think even if not suing up FX blocks you would use up IAs pretty quickly which is why I would likely just use the FS that came with the amp for switching the amp and save precious IA buttons for effect blocks. Even if he added a RJM amp gizmo to switch the amp he'd still need to assign 4 IA switches?

Thanks for trying to better explain it to me and not getting all bent out of shape accusing me of trolling ;-)
 

joe rogers

Forum Addict
Makes sense. I was typing while on a bus in a third world country, but I got the impression he was trying to make scenes work for switching amp channels. I totally get him wanting to "tap dance" and was just saying that tap dancing and scenes can be mutually exlusive. I was under the impression that the blocks for relays do not count as "effects" blocks. I don't see how triggering a relay would eat DSP for example.

I think even if not suing up FX blocks you would use up IAs pretty quickly which is why I would likely just use the FS that came with the amp for switching the amp and save precious IA buttons for effect blocks. Even if he added a RJM amp gizmo to switch the amp he'd still need to assign 4 IA switches?

Thanks for trying to better explain it to me and not getting all bent out of shape accusing me of trolling ;-)
There are two methods for triggering the relay outputs:

1) Tie them to scene changes

2) Use a relay block in the grid - ties the block to a particular footswitch.

Because they both rely on software to drive the relay(s), some CPU utilization is required (albeit a very small amount). However, if you do not wish to use scenes to drive the relay(s), then you have to tie the change to a foot switch. This consumes real estate in the grid as it also consumes a footswitch to drive the relay.
 
There are two methods for triggering the relay outputs:

1) Tie them to scene changes

2) Use a relay block in the grid - ties the block to a particular footswitch.

Because they both rely on software to drive the relay(s), some CPU utilization is required (albeit a very small amount). However, if you do not wish to use scenes to drive the relay(s), then you have to tie the change to a foot switch. This consumes real estate in the grid as it also consumes a footswitch to drive the relay.
So it appears at least initially the limitation would be the "grid" only having 8 slots as opposed to the Axe having more flexible grid in some ways. Hardware wise it may not be a problem to not have the relay blocks eat up FX slots but from a current UI standpoint the above scenario is the only option.

Makes sense. I would be back to using amp FS rather than losing those FX blocks and IA switches but what do I know. . . lol. .
 
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