Neutral FULL range IR's cabs? also What amp do you audition IR's with? (high gain)

symphx

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
Hello all, I was thinking, I seem to be on a constant quest for the 'perfect' IR. One that actually doesnt color the amp but lets me make all adjustments in sounds from the amp rather than using the IR to color it. An FRFR IR if you will. Here is my thinking:

Sure I know amp cabs, and speakers, and mics color our sound. Why not do all the coloring from the source itself (besides the guitar). This would save a lot of hunting for IR sounds and just let me hear the amp as it was intended.

Do any musicians play heads through FRFR type speakers/pa's?

QUESTION 2: Mid and High Gain IR auditioning: Another problem I have is which amp should I choose to audition IR's? Of course different amps sound different with the same IR's. I like many axe fx amps, do I have to audition the 6 thousand IR's I have for every amp, or is there some 'neutral' kind of high gain amp I should use that really allows me to hear what the IR is doing. (I realize this may be impossible to answer but if anyone can tell me their favorite amp they use to audition, Id be interested) thanks.
 
Amps without a speaker or speaker sim will sound pretty terrible. They just were not designed that way. Very clean amps you might get away with it, but dirty sounds, forget it.
 
disable the cab block and you pretty much hear the uncoloured amp. any colouring at that point comes from your own monitoring system. most likely not very pleasant unless you're going for clean tones...
 
Of course amps sound horrible with no cab block, I guess Ive never heard a real amp head through say a PA, does it sound just as horrible>
 
symphx said:
Of course amps sound horrible with no cab block, I guess Ive never heard a real amp head through say a PA, does it sound just as horrible>
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About the same as if you turn off the cab block and play thru your studio monitors or FRFR being that they are all generally intended to be flat.
 
One thing that helps is to load up an amp at reset settings, all knobs at noon...bypass the cab and you see there is plenty of high end already there, cab back on it's all filtered down to nothing. Then I go through IRs until I get one that's letting the right high end area through...then adjust the amp once you know what the filter sounds like
 
You may be overthinking this. Pick one or several amps that are associated with the genre you're playing (e.g. Fender with blues, Marshall with rock, Peavey with metal). Find a cabinet or a speaker that comes stock with the real amp or if you happen to like a particular speaker (e.g. greenbacks or v30's) pick a few different impulses of same kind of speakers. Of course you can mix and match any amp or cabinet impulse in the world, but you'll get better results faster using amps with recommended cabinets or speakers.

Try several impulses with different mics and mic positions and make notes which you like the best. Save the amp, cab and impulse combinations as presets or scenes, compare them with each other and pick the best combination. Use that, play guitar and rule the world.

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't go through 200 different cabinets with each amp head in real life (with real amps and cabinets) to find the right sound for you ;)
 
I think the 1x12 E12L may be the closest to something like that. It probably has the least 'cab coloration' going on.
 
symphx said:
ah but which ones?
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That my friend has become the eternal question ever since cab modelers with loadable IR's came along. The only way to find out is to play a riff into a looper and endlessly repeat it as you cycle through IR's until you find something that you like. There is no universal gold standard IR, because everybody has different tastes.

unix-guy said:
Well... The one the amp designer used and was most likely sold with the amp ;)
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Well, it can be argued that what they used at the time was something they A: picked at random, B: because it was the cheapest to keep down costs, C: the only thing available at the time, or D: what the market wanted. Marshall didn't invent the Marshall stack because science had determined it was the best cab for their amp, but because guitarists at the time wanted more volume and demanded bigger cabs with more speakers. Didn't Pete Townsend basically asked them for an 8x12 cab which just plain impossible to haul around, so Marshall came up with the stackable 4x12 instead?
 
Dont you guys think it is interesting that when designing an amp the 'sound' of the amp is so biased by the cabs/speakers. It is like an artist painting a picture then someone taking pictures of it with colored filters. Anyhoo...
 
symphx said:
Dont you guys think it is interesting that when designing an amp the 'sound' of the amp is so biased by the cabs/speakers. It is like an artist painting a picture then someone taking pictures of it with colored filters. Anyhoo...
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For that type of analogy I would say it’s more like the head is the pallet and the cab is the medium. It’s integral to the sound and choosing different mediums to paint your picture on will yield different results.

your analogy would be more similar to remixing a track and heavily editing the sound inside the daw I think.

honestly this thread just sounds like someone that started out with modelers and never actually played/owned traditional amps/stacks. It’s like trying to drive a car without the wheels because you want to hear The engine without hearing the tires on the road or something.
 
You can't have one without the other. There are so many variables (amps and all their intricacies, cab/speakers, mics, mic placements) and it's always about the sum of all its parts. And because there are so many variables, there are endless combinations which leads to enthusiasts obsessing over tone. Cutting out the function of the cab and mics is missing most of the equation.

To answer your second question "What amp do you audition IRs with?" I almost never do it this way. Once you get familiar with an amp's "personality" and understand how all of its controls interact, then I'll start messing with IRs. I play in an 80s metal band. While it makes sense, I don't start with a Greenback Marshall cab IR and then switch through 80s amps. I start with an amp I'm familiar with, dial it in, then shuffle through cab IRs to tweak the tone even further.
 
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