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Need To Restart - Making an Uberschall Scream?

Discussion in 'Axe-Fx II Discussion' started by H13, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. H13

    H13
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    Alright. I've chased my tail into a downward spiral of...crappy poorly set up guitar tones.

    There comes a point in time where you tweak a little bit of this, a little bit of that, swap this, try that, and eventually you end up with a noise that's kinda crap but you've also fiddled with basically every function and parameter on the amp that what you're playing through doesn't really resemble the original amp anymore.

    I've dug myself too deep into my Uberschall patch and made something a bit crap. Not sure how to dig myself out of this hole so let's have us a refresher and restart with something awesome :)

    The problem: My Uber kinda sounds like a hot rodded Marshall, just without the glassy top end. It doesn't REALLY sound Uber-ish anymore. It basically sounded like a dull JCM with dead strings, rather than a barely controlled behemoth barking orders at you.

    What I want it to do:

    This clip (double-tracked) is a perfect summary of what I want my Uber patch to sound like. It's got those kinda barky, but smooth and dark mids, a really thick and thunderous bottom end (how YOU doin'? ;) ) and a bit of fizz up top for excitement but not in a way that's obscuring anything.


    Another clip which also sounds awesome to me. It almost has a groaning sorta quality to the mids which sounds killer to me. But again, the mids are really clear despite the bottom end "presence" and the top end fizz is a great contrast which brings life to it.

    So what should I do to make that noise? What sort of settings? What sort of cabs? How much gain on the amp? Boosted or not boosted? Any advanced stuff I should look at? Any particular GEQ frequencies to focus on?
     
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  2. iaresee

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    Daaaaamn. That Uber model is a MONSTER!

    I have a guitar that can chug a bit now so I took a reaaally quick stab at making the Uber model sound like you described.



    Maybe a little bass heavy? Hard to say. Once I kick in the enhance I think it works really well.

    This was all done with the III but the basis for this tone was the Euro Uber with:

    Input Drive: 6.55
    Bass: 2.21
    Mid: 6.75
    Treble: 7.25
    Presence: 5.00
    Depth: 7.93
    Master: 5.00
    Bright: On

    No other tweaks the AMP block.

    CAB block was:

    4x12 MAR PR-M208 FULL (OH) panned -25
    4x12 Uber V30 57 Cap-Edge panned +25

    And the Enhance was Modern, default settings except Low Cut set to 156.1 Hz and High Cut set to 9480 Hz.

    I could riff on that all night. Tasty. Thanks for the intro to that model!
     
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  3. H13

    H13
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    That's a great sounding patch and a good start point!

    However I can hear my Not-Quite-Uber "issues" in your patch that I was getting as well. It's what lead me down the rabbit hole of...tweaking everything and accidentally making something pretty mediocre. I mean no disrespect because that's a great sounding patch and I'm gonna play with those settings and see if I can wrangle it more into what I'm after.

    Your patch is a bit Marshall-ish for what I'm going for. It doesn't have the super saturated top end (with a bit of fizz) and the mids don't have that darkness to them. The way the mids "move" from note to note is also too quick so they're not getting that "groan" that I mentioned in the second clip (that being said, I'd like a bit more mids in that recording). If I closed my eyes and didn't know any better, I would've guessed that you were playing a boosted Marshall.

    I mean...don't get me wrong, it sounds great! I'm also aware that Ubers are KINDA Hot Rodded Marshalls (albeit to an excessive extent). I want a screaming Marshall sound, but the Ubers in those clips (and the ones I've played in person) aren't THAT Marshall-esque in terms of their tone.

    Look...the next paragraph is a steaming pile of crap. I'm gonna use a whole bunch of metaphors to describe what I hear in the Uber that I haven't been able to get outta the AFX. It's dramatic and as non-specific as guitar tone talk can be, so bear with me? Hopefully some of it makes sense? It's an attempt to explain what I'm looking for and what seperates Ubers from Marshalls into a fairly unique beast.

    The bottom end is canyonesque (which is fairly easy to achieve), but the mids are slow and dark (which gives it that "groaning" sound). At the same time, the top end is super quick, bright, a bit fizzy but real aggressive which makes the chugs really slice you in half. The mids almost don't come out in the chugs (at the very least, they trail behind the pick attack). It's almost all pick attack and bottom and thump, but then when you let the note breathe and ring out, the mids jump out (which is the Marshall sorta character I like), but kinda drag themselves to the next note. That "dragging" sorta thing is what makes the amp sound so freaking heavy to me. The brightness of the fizz, kinda contrasts the dark, smooth mids.

    I mean...I'm hyper-analysing 1\4 of a second here to come up with that description. If it's the biggest load of wank you've ever read, I agree with you. If it also makes no sense to you what I'm describing, I also agree with you. But hopefully people can see what I'm looking for here?
     
  4. #4 Randalljax, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
    Randalljax

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    Have you tried a tone Match on that .

    I think thats Lasse Lammert if I remember ,He actually did just release a pack for Fractal audio ,that matches his Kemper profiles
    the Uber is in there

    https://www.stltones.com/collections/axe-fx-products/products/lasse-lammert-producer-axe-fx-bundle

    check tone 4 big bogner that his amp you posted above if you watch the video its got the silver Bogner logo , not trying to do a sales pitch and I am NOT affiliated ,its also not cheap for the pack but if you dig it hey
     
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  5. Hazar

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    That sounded great! Thanks for sharing!
     
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  6. mnemonic

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    The Uber is one of those models I’ve always wanted to like but I could just never make it work for me. It seemed too fizzy and I can’t remove the fizz without it sounding like there’s a blanket on the amp, and the bass is very woofy, and I have trouble taming it without making it thin. I’d also love to hear people’s tips and tricks with this model.

    Lately I seem to have had better luck using some of the non-metal oriented (but still high gain) amps for modern metal tones, like the x99 (current favourite), SLO, Euro Red, cornford, etc.
     
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  7. H13

    H13
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    Oh damn! I didn't know he did that! I'll see how I go with this thread and if I get stuck, I'll definitely check those out. Cheers for the heads up!

    Seriously it sounds awesome. I know I took a dump on it and whinged about it, but it's a fantastic sounding setup.

    It IS a dick to dial in. But those clips I posted before are pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. So I know it's possible :p

    Based on the patch that iarsee posted earlier, he had more mids than me. This amp DOES seem to love cranked mids.

    Which lead me to the "Fat" switch. I keep forgetting that exists and sometimes it's fucking great. In this circumstance, that seems to have "slowed" the mids down a bit and give it that feel I was talking about earlier. Worth experimenting with...
     
  8. iaresee

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    I originally had the bass dialed back to like 1.00 and thought it sounded great but it didn’t match the clips posted so I brought it up. Don’t be afraid to go to extremes on the controls.
     
  9. iaresee

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    @H13 no worries. I know it was close but not quite there. I’m wondering if some more Master Volume to get some power amp colour on things might help. And definitely I’d try a tone match. The model seems to need some extreme settings. Low bass. And you can crank the mids and it still sounds great.
     
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  10. Tahoebrian5

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    The clips in the first post are very nice. No help here but if you get close please share!
     
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  11. Kamil Kisiel

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    Maybe a silly question, but have you tried copying the settings from the video? In the second one the knob positions are pretty clearly visible. He also says he's using an Ubercab with V30s and an SM58, and 6CA7 tubes in the power amp section. Have you tried to replicate those settings in your patch?
     
  12. #12 Azael, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
    Azael

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    Hi, I think the most important part of the sound is the IR, try the first bogner IRs from Ownhammer.
    This my take some firmwares ago, hope you like it!
     
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  13. StickMan

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    Maybe use a multiband compressor to tame the bass a little bit.
     
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  14. smarshallll

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    I can verify that the Atrium Audio Pack from STL will cover this territory plus more in a heartbeat.

    If you want to go it on your own, I'd keep to the Uber model but really watch your power amp settings maybe play with the trem a little probably not going to need a lot of knob tweaking, after you've rounded everything else out maybe play with the low resonance a bit. Add a TS Drive block in front of it, silicon clipping, and flavor to taste. For the IR I'd keep with a Bogner cab, maybe mix in an Orange or ENGL. Mics of choice would be a 58 and maybe a 121 or 67. Using actual mic IR's instead of the modeling in the block will produce better results. Low cut 50-80 high cut 9500-10500 to taste.
     
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  15. H13

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    Yeah I tried those settings but it didn't really get there. The IR is going to be super important in this scenario.

    I don't find it difficult to get a good, hot-rodded Marshall sound out of this, but I do find it difficult to push it that bit further into Uberschall Ridiculous territory.

    I appreciate the suggestion, but I do enjoy how barely-controlled this amp is :D. Ive just gotta find the sweet spot and the right IR.

    I love the Raspyness that you're getting there! I'll look into the OH responses. Do you know what settings you were using?

    Anybody played with the GEQ and found some important frequencies?
     
  16. iaresee

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    No but as general advice I can offer this: set up a peaking PEQ block post-amp, pre-cab with a fairly high gain and narrow Q, sweep until you hear what you like and then spread the Q out and lower the gain. That's usually how I find the "nice" frequencies I want to pull out in a mix.

    Invert the gain for the "not nice" frequencies. :)
     
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  17. Melten

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    The videos are also double tracked aren't they?
     
  18. iaresee

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    Or he's running a stereo enhancer. Definitely not a mono signal.
     
  19. Melten

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    I just noticed that @H13 identified that in the OP. My mistake. To me it sounds pretty clearly like two different tracks, as the note attack seems to be imperfectly aligned. It might be worth experimenting with double tracking to see if any of the valuable quality of the tone is coming from there.
     
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  20. Azael

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    Thanks, I don't remember, I'll search preset.
     

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