Need to move pickguard screw holes (just a bit)

SJB

SJB

Inspired
Hi Fractal Gang -
I'm writing to pick your collective experience today (no pun intended..."pick"). I'm working on a project based on a strat body. I had a custom pick guard made, and although I made an exact template and included the old pick guard, I was still foiled.... the new pick guard is thicker and and more rigid than the old one. The old pick guard apparently deformed quite a bit to fit the screw holes. As a result the new one doesn't quite match...

I need to fill several of the holes and re-drill them for a more perfect fit. Does anyone have any experience with drillable wood fillers? Can I get a recommendation on what works and what doesn't?
Thanks to all!
Steve
 
I would go with dowels to plug the old holes then drill new ones where you want them. Use a hardwood dowel that is similar to the wood of the guitar body. You can pickup a dowel rod at Home Depot or Lowe's very cheaply. Find a YouTube video demo and you're home free.
 
You did not mention what kind of wood the guitar body is. While I agree that dowels would be best, the screw holes for a pick guard are very small. I suggest you make a slurry of sawdust and wood glue to fill the holes. After they dry (24 hours) then carefully position the new pick guard where you want it to go and CAREFULLY mark the hole positions with a pencil. Next use a wood awl to make a slight indent EXACTLY where you want the new screw holes. DO NOT FORCEFULLY HIT THE AWL. You are just trying to make a starter indent. Next use a very small bit to drill pilot holes, then a slightly larger bit to drill the holes to size. Carefully screw the pick guard on to the guitar taking care not to over tighten.
 
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Geezerjohn said:
You did not mention what kind of wood the guitar body is. While I agree that dowels would be best, the screw holes for a pick guard are very small. I suggest you make a slurry of sawdust and wood glue to fill the holes. After they dry (24 hours) then carefully position the new pick guard where you want it to go and CAREFULLY mark the hole positions with a pencil. Next use a wood awl to make a slight indent EXACTLY where you want the new screw holes. DO NOT FORCEFULLY HIT THE AWL. You are just trying to make a starter indent. Next use a very small bit to drill pilot holes, then a slightly larger bit to drill the holes to size. Carefully screw the pick guard on to the guitar taking care not to over tighten.
Click to expand...

Yep, that indent is really important for making sure your drill bit doesn't wander around.
 
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I've done this. Toothpicks ( the round ones) and Titebond III to fill. When dry, sand lightly. You don't have to match the wood for this.

Keep it simple.
 
scorch said:
I've done this. Toothpicks ( the round ones) and Titebond III to fill. When dry, sand lightly. You don't have to match the wood for this.

Keep it simple.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Same will work for strap pin holes.

I snip off the pointy bits, then cut to fit hole depth. Put a drop or two of wood glue on it and slip it in.
 
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Yes, toothpicks and wood glue. Put enough glue into the hole that it squeezes out when you insert the toothpick. Wipe off the excess glue with a damp paper towel before it dries. No need to sand anything. Let the glue dry sompletely before you make your new holes.

Use a nail or screw to poke a small hole (by hand) at the place you want to drill. This is important to keep the drill bit from wandering around when you start drilling.

After you drill the holes, it helps to rub the screw on a bar of soap before screwing it into a fresh hole.
 
unix-guy said:
Exactly. Same will work for strap pin holes.
Click to expand...
That’ll work, but it’s not the best choice for strap buttons. So-called strap button screws are barely adequate to the task (ever notice how often they work loose over the years?). And toothpicks are made of soft wood, making the screw’s grip even worse.

For strap buttons, you’re better off drilling out the hole and plugging it with a hardwood dowel (and wood glue, for those following along at home :)). Cut two or three notches along the length of dowel to give the glue somewhere to squeeze out of. Now you have fresh wood that you can trust.
 
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Rex said:
That’ll work, but it’s not the best choice for strap buttons. So-called strap button screws are barely adequate to the task (ever notice how often they work loose over the years?). And toothpicks are made of soft wood, making the screw’s grip even worse.

For strap buttons, you’re better off drilling out the hole and plugging it with a hardwood dowel (and wood glue, for those following along at home :)). Cut two or three notches along the length of dowel to give the glue somewhere to squeeze out of. Now you have fresh wood that you can trust.
Click to expand...
I've had good results on about 20 guitars... But I'm sure your method would last longer!
 
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Another vote for filling with toothpicks. Glue is optional if you drive the toothpicks tightly in pointed end first. Titebond I II or III will all work equally well for this purpose, as will plain old Elmer's white glue. You're not needing the bonding power of the glue. It's mainly acting as a filler.A new dimple and pilot hole ensures the screw won't wander as you drive it.

Rex said:
That’ll work, but it’s not the best choice for strap buttons. So-called strap button screws are barely adequate to the task (ever notice how often they work loose over the years?). And toothpicks are made of soft wood, making the screw’s grip even worse.

For strap buttons, you’re better off drilling out the hole and plugging it with a hardwood dowel (and wood glue, for those following along at home :)). Cut two or three notches along the length of dowel to give the glue somewhere to squeeze out of. Now you have fresh wood that you can trust.
Click to expand...

As a woodworker, I respectfully disagree. One of the reasons that strap pin screws are so easy to strip out is because they are typically going into end grain. The screws are fine and very adequate for the task. It's the direction they're going into the wood that's the problem. If you're driving a screw into end grain, the wood fibers are running perpendicular to the threads, so the fibers don't deform enough to fully engage the threads.

If you use a plain dowel to fill the strap pin hole, the subsequent screw will go into end grain, which just repeats the problem. Toothpicks forcefully driven in and glued, on the other hand, will deform and mate with the screw threads better. I've tightened many stripped out strap pin holes by simply driving toothpicks into the hole until no more would fit, and the running the screw back in with an undersized pilot hole. (Smaller than I'd use if I was going into face grain.)

I do agree with the lengthwise grooves on a dowel to allow the glue to squeeze out, though. A quick and easy way to do that is to squeeze the dowel with a pair of regular adjustable pliers, working your way down the dowel to press evenly-spaced grooves along the entire length. Then rotate the dowel 1/4 turn and do it again, putting grooves in the places you missed on the first pass.

Also, the sawdust and glue approach mentioned upthread is not a good ideal if the new screw hole will touch the old one. Sawdust has far less gripping power than a pack of toothpicks. And if you're just filling the holes and repainting, a good putty like Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty will leave a smoother, non-shrinking surface. Bondo also works, but it's hardly worth the hassle of mixing up a batch for a few screw holes.

Another old-school method for fixing stripped holes is lead wool (like coarse steel wool, but made of lead), but I've not seen it for sale for years. I still have a small chunk of it stashed away that I've had since the '70s.
 
Guys, thank you all... this is very helpful. I'm going to give the toothpick method a try... I have all the necessary materials. Thanks very much for the input!
Steve
 
TG3K said:
Another vote for filling with toothpicks. Glue is optional if you drive the toothpicks tightly in pointed end first. Titebond I II or III will all work equally well for this purpose, as will plain old Elmer's white glue. You're not needing the bonding power of the glue. It's mainly acting as a filler.A new dimple and pilot hole ensures the screw won't wander as you drive it.



As a woodworker, I respectfully disagree. One of the reasons that strap pin screws are so easy to strip out is because they are typically going into end grain. The screws are fine and very adequate for the task. It's the direction they're going into the wood that's the problem. If you're driving a screw into end grain, the wood fibers are running perpendicular to the threads, so the fibers don't deform enough to fully engage the threads.

If you use a plain dowel to fill the strap pin hole, the subsequent screw will go into end grain, which just repeats the problem. Toothpicks forcefully driven in and glued, on the other hand, will deform and mate with the screw threads better. I've tightened many stripped out strap pin holes by simply driving toothpicks into the hole until no more would fit, and the running the screw back in with an undersized pilot hole. (Smaller than I'd use if I was going into face grain.)

I do agree with the lengthwise grooves on a dowel to allow the glue to squeeze out, though. A quick and easy way to do that is to squeeze the dowel with a pair of regular adjustable pliers, working your way down the dowel to press evenly-spaced grooves along the entire length. Then rotate the dowel 1/4 turn and do it again, putting grooves in the places you missed on the first pass.

Also, the sawdust and glue approach mentioned upthread is not a good ideal if the new screw hole will touch the old one. Sawdust has far less gripping power than a pack of toothpicks. And if you're just filling the holes and repainting, a good putty like Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty will leave a smoother, non-shrinking surface. Bondo also works, but it's hardly worth the hassle of mixing up a batch for a few screw holes.

Another old-school method for fixing stripped holes is lead wool (like coarse steel wool, but made of lead), but I've not seen it for sale for years. I still have a small chunk of it stashed away that I've had since the '70s.
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You’re right about the grain direction being a factor. But I still hold to the idea that the typical strap button screw is undersized for carrying a dynamic guitar-type load with ever-changing torque in multiple directions. If you replace the strap-button screws with neck screws (you’ll have to grind the heads a bit to make them fit the button), you’ll never have to worry about grain direction again, even if your customer is doing crazy things like strap spins.
 
Rex said:
you’ll never have to worry about grain direction again, even if your customer is doing crazy things like strap spins.
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Tell that to my friend who sent his guitar sailing through the air when he did a guitar spin!

The strap pin screw broke entirely thru the upper horn of his guitar!

That thing managed to soar thru the crowd for about 30 feet or more without hitting anyone... Good thing it was an outdoor gig as I think the grass saved it any other damage :)

Craziest thing I've ever seen at a gig! And our crowd loved it.
 
unix-guy said:
Tell that to my friend who sent his guitar sailing through the air when he did a guitar spin!

The strap pin screw broke entirely thru the upper horn of his guitar!

That thing managed to soar thru the crowd for about 30 feet or more without hitting anyone... Good thing it was an outdoor gig as I think the grass saved it any other damage :)

Craziest thing I've ever seen at a gig! And our crowd loved it.
Click to expand...
I bet he ignored my suggestion, and didn’t use neck screws. ;)
 
SJB said:
I need to fill several of the holes and re-drill them for a more perfect fit. Does anyone have any experience with drillable wood fillers? Can I get a recommendation on what works and what doesn't?
Thanks to all!
Click to expand...

Use toothpicks of if you need something a little bigger, use a piece of dowel. Then add some wood glue and plug the hole with the toothpick or dowel.

I had to move the bridge mounting screw holes on my sustainer project and I used dowels. Here's a pic;

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-sustainer-project.133783/page-2#post-1586822
 
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unix-guy said:
I'm not sure that would matter... The screw didn't pull out, it literally broke a chunk of wood out of the top of the horn.
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I haven’t seen the failed horn in question, but a neck screw seated in a properly-drilled hole would have spread the load over a larger surface area, more deeply into the wood, and with less torque trying to rip the screw out.
 
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In most cases (around-the-neck guitar swinging and ultra-thin horns excepted) the main force on strap pin screws is shear strength, not torque. I agree a screw the same diameter as a neck screw would provide a bit more strength, but that's because of the fatter screw. It'd be stronger even if it was the same length as the original strap pin screw. In theory, at some point the diameter of the screw could weaken the wood as the result of not having enough wood on either side to support it, but it'd have to be a mighty big screw, lol.

Crap, I need to stop thinking about structural engineering as it relates to guitar screws and go practice my guitar. :D
 
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