Need Tips: Smothing out harsh distortion?

rsf1977

rsf1977

Fractal Fanatic
Here's my signal chain first as detailed as I can be just in case I'm doing something odd I don't even realize:

Ibanez RG321MH (bridge BK Warpig - tuned A-E-A-D-Gb-B) (volume and tone pot full output)
~~~~> Input Cable: Klotz La Grange (25ft.) into "Front" input
~~~~> Axe-FX: Ultra (Input level around 2pm/Amp Sims On/Cabinet IRs Bypassed/Output 1 around noon depending)
~~~~> Preset: Left channel: TS808 drive block (no boost/0 drive/GE diode) -> 5150 sim, Right channel: TS808 drive block (no boost/0 drive/GE diode) -> Recto Red sim
~~~~> Output Cables (Stereo): (2) XLR Analysis Plus Pro Oval Studio (1ft.)
~~~~> Power Amp: Carvin 1540L (gain around 2pm to full volume depending)
~~~~> Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Po Oval Speaker Cable (4ft) & Monster (30ft)
~~~~> Cabinets: Voodoo Amps 4x12 (T75s/V30s) & Mesa Trad. 4x12 (V30s)

I've noticed as I turn the volume up the tone gets really harsh and piercing especially if i stand at a distance in front of my 4x12 cabs. And if I turn on the Cab IRs it all disappears, but it's a little too murky and the lows seem to get out of control pretty quickly. I was wondering if someone could give me some tips on smoothing out my high gain distortion. What parameters/frequencies would really help me out. Because I only get to be at stage volume once a week at band practice and I don't have much time to spend tweaking at that point so I'd like to go in there with a bit of a game plan. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.
 
electronpirate said:
Guesses:

Input or Output is too hot? Not hot enough?
Bump up the Master volume on your amp sims.
Drop the high cut.
Click to expand...

I'll try experimenting with Input/Output settings. Maybe I'll give the 1/4 out a shot and see if i can bring down the level that 6db it might help things? I'll mess with the Master parameter. It seems to make things pretty harsh though when I turn it up for somereason
 
I have a cab with V30's and I find it to overly bright and harsh with the Axe FX. I compensate by using the Global EQ on Output 2 to pull out some 8K and 4K.
 
One thing to try - increase the gain on the amp, reduce the output level on the Axe.
 
screamtone said:
I have a cab with V30's and I find it to overly bright and harsh with the Axe FX. I compensate by using the Global EQ on Output 2 to pull out some 8K and 4K.
Click to expand...

Yea I'm curious with the real cab users if this is a common issue? I think EQ might be the best solution, I was just wondering if there are certain amp parameters that might be making the issue worse
 
Simplest thing to try:

LPF blocks both before & after the Amp & Cab - slowly reduce the roll-off frequency until you hear a noticeable difference. The LPFs won't be very noticeable until 6K & below (even lower for the 'pre' LPF). This technique will also improve the noise ratio. ;)

~Rad~
 
Radley said:
Simplest thing to try:

LPF blocks both before & after the Amp & Cab - slowly reduce the roll-off frequency until you hear a noticeable difference. The LPFs won't be very noticeable until 6K & below (even lower for the 'pre' LPF). This technique will also improve the noise ratio. ;)

~Rad~
Click to expand...


sounds like a plan, thanks
 
I have a V30 and G12H loaded cab and dont have problems with over harshness. Over midness sometimes but not over harshness.

Still, Id try the High Cut as suggested. also look at the Damp. High damp settings give a nice open feel but can make the sound a little harsh. Lowing the damp compresses the sound more, but takes away the edge. For heavier tones (and it sounds from your amp types your using these) lower damp settings feel better to me (more compressed less harsh).

Also (again as suggested) try raising the master. Try playing with the sag at the same time. A higher Sag value with a higher Master will compress the sound a little too - again reducing any harshness.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
I have a V30 and G12H loaded cab and dont have problems with over harshness. Over midness sometimes but not over harshness.

Still, Id try the High Cut as suggested. also look at the Damp. High damp settings give a nice open feel but can make the sound a little harsh. Lowing the damp compresses the sound more, but takes away the edge. For heavier tones (and it sounds from your amp types your using these) lower damp settings feel better to me (more compressed less harsh).

Also (again as suggested) try raising the master. Try playing with the sag at the same time. A higher Sag value with a higher Master will compress the sound a little too - again reducing any harshness.
Click to expand...

Yea this is all for heavy tones. It's funny with the Damp parameter most high gain guys seem to be cranking that all the way up, but every time i set it anywhere past noon it seems to start taking all the organic character out of the tone and stiffening everything up. I'll try some lower settings and see how it works out. Just curious what ranges you tend to set things up for a high gain patch?

:?: Is the stock default "Damp" setting for each amp sim related to the real amp head it's emulating, or is it just defaulting to a random setting of some sort?
 
rsf1977 said:
paulmapp8306 said:
I have a V30 and G12H loaded cab and dont have problems with over harshness. Over midness sometimes but not over harshness.

Still, Id try the High Cut as suggested. also look at the Damp. High damp settings give a nice open feel but can make the sound a little harsh. Lowing the damp compresses the sound more, but takes away the edge. For heavier tones (and it sounds from your amp types your using these) lower damp settings feel better to me (more compressed less harsh).

Also (again as suggested) try raising the master. Try playing with the sag at the same time. A higher Sag value with a higher Master will compress the sound a little too - again reducing any harshness.
Click to expand...

Yea this is all for heavy tones. It's funny with the Damp parameter most high gain guys seem to be cranking that all the way up, but every time i set it anywhere past noon it seems to start taking all the organic character out of the tone and stiffening everything up. I'll try some lower settings and see how it works out. Just curious what ranges you tend to set things up for a high gain patch?

:?: Is the stock default Damp setting for each amp related to the real world amp it's emulating, or is it just defaulting to a random setting of some sort?
Click to expand...

real world.
 
I'll go back and edit it in a second. I meant "real world" as in a real actual amp head like a 5150 head or a dual recto head

oh my bad java i thought you were asking me what i meant lol. Thanks for the info
 
Cranking the Master volume level seems to incorporate an ever-lowering LPF along with some increased compression (which is pretty much what you will get from a real tube amp). The various suggestions are simply different approaches to 'skinning the same cat' ;)
 
Radley said:
Cranking the Master volume level seems to incorporate an ever-lowering LPF along with some increased compression (which is pretty much what you will get from a real tube amp). The various suggestions are simply different approaches to 'skinning the same cat' ;)
Click to expand...

The effect of cranking the Master may sound like a variable LPF, but there are actually no changes in any filters. The Master simply sets the level between the preamp and power amp simulation. The power amp modeling behaves like a real power amp. If you push it harder it gets darker. There are no filter tricks like other modelers.

For high-gain sounds I start with the Master at noon. Adjust gain and tone and then increase or decrease the Master to get the power amp to the "sweet spot". When you hit the sweet spot it will start to growl. Too much master and it gets muddy. Too little and it gets harsh.
 
rsf1977 said:
screamtone said:
I have a cab with V30's and I find it to overly bright and harsh with the Axe FX. I compensate by using the Global EQ on Output 2 to pull out some 8K and 4K.
Click to expand...

Yea I'm curious with the real cab users if this is a common issue? I think EQ might be the best solution, I was just wondering if there are certain amp parameters that might be making the issue worse
Click to expand...
Are your speakers brand new? V30s can be really bright and harschy when not broken.
 
FractalAudio said:
The effect of cranking the Master may sound like a variable LPF, but there are actually no changes in any filters. The Master simply sets the level between the preamp and power amp simulation. The power amp modeling behaves like a real power amp. If you push it harder it gets darker. There are no filter tricks like other modelers.

For high-gain sounds I start with the Master at noon. Adjust gain and tone and then increase or decrease the Master to get the power amp to the "sweet spot". When you hit the sweet spot it will start to growl. Too much master and it gets muddy. Too little and it gets harsh.
Click to expand...

great info cliff, thanks! I'll try it out
 
bmi said:
rsf1977 said:
Yea I'm curious with the real cab users if this is a common issue? I think EQ might be the best solution, I was just wondering if there are certain amp parameters that might be making the issue worse
Click to expand...
Are your speakers brand new? V30s can be really bright and harschy when not broken.
Click to expand...

my cabs are pretty broken in I even tried it on the old Marshall 4x12s at my practice studio. The thing is when I stand off axis it sounds pretty amazing but when I get in front of the cab it's beaming all kinds of harshness that's really brutal on the ear drum
 
rsf1977 said:
The thing is when I stand off axis it sounds pretty amazing but when I get in front of the cab it's beaming all kinds of harshness that's really brutal on the ear drum
Click to expand...
That's normal guitar cab behavior. If you manage to adjust the sound to be great on axis, then the off axis sound is not probably great anymore. IMHO best way to smooth out the differences between on and off axis is to do the Mitchell Doughnut modification.
 
rsf1977 said:
The thing is when I stand off axis it sounds pretty amazing but when I get in front of the cab it's beaming all kinds of harshness that's really brutal on the ear drum
Click to expand...

That's typical, especially for 4x12's. The high frequencies have a narrower beam pattern than the lows.

This is why "beam blockers" are sold and why people put duct tape over the center of the cone and other tricks to try and even out the dispersion.
 
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