Need serious help with IR-s :(

Omrat

Omrat

Inspired
Hey !

I'm a rookie Axe FX II XL owner and I have serious problems finding some nice IR-s for high-gain tones.
Only stock IR that I like and that would fit in My mixes is pretty much Cali 4x12. (there is little bit too much low end though)
So I bought 412-GTR_SUN_V30 and downloaded also 412 MES-ST demo from OH.
Problem is - I have to make huge (at least -6dB) cut in low mids with PEQ to get similar tone as the Cali 4x12.
Is this normal ?
No matter what mic combination or IR i use from those packs. I have heard some really nice clips with those IR-s but I just can't get the tone I'm after :(
Maybe I have bad ears.........

I'm using Axe FX for direct recording.

Any suggestions ?
Should I try Fractal Cab Packs ?

Thanks in advance,
Tarmo
 
Lot of factors here. First, I think the 4x12 Cali is a different cab and set of speakers than those others you are trying. It's CL80s on the 4x12 Cali and I think the metal grill speaker covers. The Ownhammer cabs are V30 based and different cabs that have cloth covers. Plus, the method of capture and mics used are going to be different. I think the stock 4x12 is a capture with a reference mic whereas the Ownhammers are going to be baked in mics with certain character (SM57, R121, 421, etc.). I suggest putting up a clip or example of what you're after. Lots of good, knowledgeable guys on chasing this kind of thing via the right IR
 
I own all of the cab packs and have found myself getting lost in a world of them during my upgrade from FW15.02 to Q2.01beta2. For this exercise, I'm sticking to factory cabs and once I'm in the ballpark and have got something I'm comfortable with I'm going to dive into my collection, based on what I've found in the factory cabs.

For me, it's too many variables at once, so I'm limiting them until I'm more comfortable with what I have at my disposal.
 
mtmartin71 said:
Lot of factors here. First, I think the 4x12 Cali is a different cab and set of speakers than those others you are trying. It's CL80s on the 4x12 Cali and I think the metal grill speaker covers. The Ownhammer cabs are V30 based and different cabs that have cloth covers. Plus, the method of capture and mics used are going to be different. I think the stock 4x12 is a capture with a reference mic whereas the Ownhammers are going to be baked in mics with certain character (SM57, R121, 421, etc.). I suggest putting up a clip or example of what you're after. Lots of good, knowledgeable guys on chasing this kind of thing via the right IR
Click to expand...

Hey and thanks for the info !
Well that explains it - different elements and mics/no mics.
Maybe the Cali 4x12 cab was not the best example. I'm after more mid scooped IR-s. I also just downloaded old good Ghatarsis IR-s in UltraRes format and I really like those.

EDIT: Here is one example I also really like
 
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Omrat said:
Any suggestions ?
Should I try Fractal Cab Packs ?
Click to expand...
Tere naaber! ;)

If you do decide to try Fractal Cab Packs you should get Cab Pack 13. I just analyzed this guitar tone and there are many IR's with similar qualities. ML USA Bulb SM57-R121 04 in specific was almost identical to this Nevermore tone that you posted.

Good luck in your tone hunt!
 
If mid scooped is what you are after, a cab pack alone is not going to get you there. You WILL have to make eq choices on the amp to fit that, such as well, scooping the mids. lol. If you are finding the IR's to have too much low end, remember you can always high pass the cab in the cab block to remove some of that low end, or try a sm57 IR which will be much more mid to high content. then scoop out those mids on your amps eq and blast away!
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
Tere naaber! ;)

If you do decide to try Fractal Cab Packs you should get Cab Pack 13. I just analyzed this guitar tone and there are many IR's with similar qualities. ML USA Bulb SM57-R121 04 in specific was almost identical to this Nevermore tone that you posted.

Good luck in your tone hunt!
Click to expand...

Terve naapuri ;)

Thanks for Your answer. Yes I'm still "hunting" that "right" IR. I found some nice IR-s from user "azis".
It's a 4x12 ENGL Standart cab and I really like "SM57_murha" from that pack hehe ;).
I'm trying to use it with PVH 6160 Block amp - getting better results but I'm not right there yet.
I know 6160 has a ton of midrange but I really like the overall voicing of that amp. (I have Peavey 6505+ and 2x12 Mesa Recto loaded with V30-s sitting next to me).
I think I'm getting Fractal Cab Pack very soon - ML USA Bulb SM57-R121 04 - it's a Mesa Cab with V30-s ?

Interesting - when I tried 412 MES-ST demo from OH - the SM57/R121 combination was the first one I checked - didn't like the results at all......... Maybe I'm doing something wrong here. Like I said the problem was in low mids. MID knob on the amp was really low, also reduced 250 and 500Hz in amp EQ and I still had to add the PEQ with huge cut in low mids after the CAB Block...........

I have to try it again.......

Kiitos avusta !!!
 
Pwrmac7600 said:
If mid scooped is what you are after, a cab pack alone is not going to get you there. You WILL have to make eq choices on the amp to fit that, such as well, scooping the mids. lol. If you are finding the IR's to have too much low end, remember you can always high pass the cab in the cab block to remove some of that low end, or try a sm57 IR which will be much more mid to high content. then scoop out those mids on your amps eq and blast away!
Click to expand...

Thanks for Your answer !

Check my previous post - I'm actually doing thinks pretty much like You described.
I'm just thinking - do I really need to use so "extreme" settings to get the sound I'm after ?
Amps EQ - do You mean just Bass/Mid/Treble on Amp block ?

Cheers,
Tarmo
 
There could be so many things affecting your results. Without seeing and hearing your preset, it's all just guess work.............But here's my $0.02

Research what was used (amps, guitars, speakers, drives, effects, etc...) to create the tones that you're after, and start with the closest comparable models.

Use your ears, not your eyes. If "extreme" settings get you there....so what?

Your tone never sounds the same to you, while you are playing....weird?...but true. Put the 'Looper' as the first block, record some riffs. Now audition Amps and IRs and tweak parameters while the looper plays.
 
Thanks, but I wouldn't use the sm57_murha -ir on its own, it super bright and annoying with no bass. Of course you can do it, but I'd recommend at least blending something (better) with it. Cab packs and Ownhammers have better quality than my messy noise junk.
 
Omrat said:
Thanks for Your answer !

Check my previous post - I'm actually doing thinks pretty much like You described.
I'm just thinking - do I really need to use so "extreme" settings to get the sound I'm after ?
Amps EQ - do You mean just Bass/Mid/Treble on Amp block ?

Cheers,
Tarmo
Click to expand...
Yes just B/M/T on amp block. I don't believe you need to use other eq's just to get that scooped metal tone you are after. I mean for old skool Metallica the mid cut was pretty severe on the amp. Even James Hetfield himself said he used to hate any mid range in his guitar tone at all, and it was Bob Rock who taught him that having some mid range in your guitar tone is necessary in order to bring out harmonic richness in your tone. As far as DT, well just look at the scoop JP put in the graphic EQ of his Mark amps. It's a pretty big pull on Mids. I just don't think you should need to be adding all kinds of PEQ in order to achieve it for either sound.
 
Omrat said:
Terve naapuri ;)

Thanks for Your answer. Yes I'm still "hunting" that "right" IR. I found some nice IR-s from user "azis".
It's a 4x12 ENGL Standart cab and I really like "SM57_murha" from that pack hehe ;).
I'm trying to use it with PVH 6160 Block amp - getting better results but I'm not right there yet.
I know 6160 has a ton of midrange but I really like the overall voicing of that amp. (I have Peavey 6505+ and 2x12 Mesa Recto loaded with V30-s sitting next to me).
I think I'm getting Fractal Cab Pack very soon - ML USA Bulb SM57-R121 04 - it's a Mesa Cab with V30-s ?

Interesting - when I tried 412 MES-ST demo from OH - the SM57/R121 combination was the first one I checked - didn't like the results at all......... Maybe I'm doing something wrong here. Like I said the problem was in low mids. MID knob on the amp was really low, also reduced 250 and 500Hz in amp EQ and I still had to add the PEQ with huge cut in low mids after the CAB Block...........

I have to try it again.......

Kiitos avusta !!!
Click to expand...

I have found the r121 to have a lot of low end. I wonder if that is affecting your low mids? I use cab pack 13 and lately I have been using a sm57 and MD421 alloy and then I mix in another cab with just an r121 but at a lower level to add some low end. I am still playing with my final cab choices. I also really like the single 57 ir's.
 
aziz said:
Thanks, but I wouldn't use the sm57_murha -ir on its own, it super bright and annoying with no bass. Of course you can do it, but I'd recommend at least blending something (better) with it. Cab packs and Ownhammers have better quality than my messy noise junk.
Click to expand...
Don't undersell yourself. I checked your pack when it came out and I remember liking some IR's in there. :) There were some similarities to the "Angle" in CP19.
 
This is in a different direction, but have you tried doing a tone match to a CD you like? I did that ages ago and its still my go to.
 
Moke said:
There could be so many things affecting your results. Without seeing and hearing your preset, it's all just guess work.............But here's my $0.02

Research what was used (amps, guitars, speakers, drives, effects, etc...) to create the tones that you're after, and start with the closest comparable models.

Use your ears, not your eyes. If "extreme" settings get you there....so what?

Your tone never sounds the same to you, while you are playing....weird?...but true. Put the 'Looper' as the first block, record some riffs. Now audition Amps and IRs and tweak parameters while the looper plays.
Click to expand...

Hey and thanks for Your response !
Will try with the Looper block - great idea !

firmani99 said:
I have found the r121 to have a lot of low end. I wonder if that is affecting your low mids? I use cab pack 13 and lately I have been using a sm57 and MD421 alloy and then I mix in another cab with just an r121 but at a lower level to add some low end. I am still playing with my final cab choices. I also really like the single 57 ir's.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Will try cab pack 13 in the near future for sure.
Do You have any clips to post ?

toolfanem said:
This is in a different direction, but have you tried doing a tone match to a CD you like? I did that ages ago and its still my go to.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion - I have not tried that.
Well actually I don't want to copy any tone - I just want to create My own.

Did a very quick test yesterday with stock IR-s 4x12 Recto 57 B and 4x12 Recto 121 C.
Panned those IR-s to center in stereo cab block and reduced 121 level -6.5dB.

Here is a clip without any eq - only reduced Mids to 1.74 :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35739353/Tarmo_muusika/FUCK_2.wav

Here is the same clip with the "extreme" eq settings I described in earlier post :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35739353/Tarmo_muusika/FUCK_2_EQ.wav

Which one do you think sounds better ?

Cheers,
Tarmo
 
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