Wish Need More metal circuit models like Hermansson, DAR, Fortin, VHT Pitbull, Randall Satan etc...

lolling at this thread. I thought their were enough high gain amps in the fractal....7 years ago.....

Hate to be a bubble burster, but if you draw a line straight to the mesa triple rec and another line straight to a 6505, the sounds your looking for from a circuitry perspective are all somewhere in the middle. You have a pretty massive set of sounds that will get you 99 percent to any of the amps you mentioned.

If the high gain stuff is good enough for Periphery, Tesseract, Metallica, etc. pretty sure you just gotta dig some more man!
 
RackAddict,

If you don't want to post a preset, that's alright. But have you tried the suggestions that were made in the thread? If not, then I'd definitely give it a go. If so, what worked and what didn't? I firmly believe that the tones you have said you wanted already exist within the Axe.
 
I think all the high gain stuff is in the box. But needs some deep diving into parameters.
It would be great to have a block library of these other non modeled amps, approved by some of the experts in this forum or by fractal.
For example, I’ve been trying to cop the sound of a mezzabarba Mzero after I saw it at NAMM, but don’t think I’m there yet with the feel and don’t really know what to modify to get there.
 
toneseeker911 said:
I think all the high gain stuff is in the box. But needs some deep diving into parameters.
It would be great to have a block library of these other non modeled amps, approved by some of the experts in this forum or by fractal.
For example, I’ve been trying to cop the sound of a mezzabarba Mzero after I saw it at NAMM, but don’t think I’m there yet with the feel and don’t really know what to modify to get there.
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Just start a thread for that, and I'm sure some people will be able to help you get there.
 
Maybe it's just my ears but that FBM doesn't sound much different than every other high gain amp in existence. I mean, it's certainly no Death Monger Seal Clubber 300X, that's for sure
 
AndrewJay said:
RackAddict,

If you don't want to post a preset, that's alright. But have you tried the suggestions that were made in the thread? If not, then I'd definitely give it a go. If so, what worked and what didn't? I firmly believe that the tones you have said you wanted already exist within the Axe.
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So I think there has been a severe misunderstanding here.
Yes I am happy with the unit and can get plenty of serious his gain sounds and chunkyness and whatever. And I am completely satisfied with the sound I'm getting for one of my projects and we'll as for all my practice and fun messing around.

But forget about the DAR, that was just for being able to modulate filters between gain stages and other fun. It's not that important.

But for a basic core just listen to the first Hermansson clip I shared. And hear it full range to understand the type of bottom end coming out of there whole remaining that tight. That is a very tough sound to get out of amps. Whether real or modeled. That's why the guy has a 2-year wait list. So this is not a dis on fractal. I already agree with the fact that fractal has great amp modeling. It's irrelevant. But Fractal has released a box that covers a wide variety of styles. It's not focused on one genre so I'm not blaming the company for anything. It's just a request to make some model insanely focused sounding like that.

If someone wants to try to get that type of ridiculously glassy and instant percussive rhythm sounds with that kind of dynamic character, I dare you to try. I bet you can't. Whether real or modeled.

I tried the Fractal Fredrick models and they are decent but a bit spongy compared to that.

But being a tube amp internal expert to play guitar is a bit much to ask for. But I'm trying.
 
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RackAddict said:
But just listen to the first Hermansson clip I shared. That is a very tough sound to get out of amps. Whether real or modeled. That's why the guy has a 2-year wait list.
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You mean a clip that sounds like it's recorded through some phone mic? Yeah, that's going to be hard to get for sure. I guess we need fullres IRs of cabs recorded with iPhones. ;)

Even then I don't hear anything you could not get out of various Marshall-based high gain models and using the input or output EQ options in the amp block.
 
laxu said:
You mean a clip that sounds like it's recorded through some phone mic? Yeah, that's going to be hard to get for sure. I guess we need fullres IRs of cabs recorded with iPhones. ;)

Even then I don't hear anything you could not get out of various Marshall-based high gain models and using the input or output EQ options in the amp block.
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Well I can get some tight tones but I can't get anything to sound quite that percussive in the fractal. If you think it's possible then prove it.

And ya, even through the crappy phone Mic it sounds shocking. Shows how good the amp is. Imagine how good it would sound through a high end signal chain.

That Hermansson Fredrick Marshall sounds absolutely insane!
 
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RackAddict said:
Well I can get some tight tones but I can't get anything to sound quoite that percussive in the fractal. If you think it's possible then prove it.

And ya, even through the crappy phone Mic it sounds shocking. Shows how good the amp is. Imagine how good it would sound through a high end signal chain.

That Hermansson Fredrick Marshall sounds absolutely insane!
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You're beating a dead horse trying to convince people you can't get ( insert amp) in the Axe. Seems everyone around here is an amp builder when you ask for a new amp model. To shorten my view. Your best option is to find a real amp that has the tone you want or comes close and have it modded out. You will NOT be happy until then. Even if Cliff gave you the amp of choice, it wont be the same. Trust me.
 
RackAddict said:
So I think there has been a severe misunderstanding here.
Yes I am happy with the unit and can get plenty of serious his gain sounds and chunkyness and whatever. And I am completely satisfied with the sound I'm getting for one of my projects and we'll as for all my practice and fun messing around.

But forget about the DAR, that was just for being able to modulate filters between gain stages and other fun. It's not that important.

But for a basic core just listen to the first Hermansson clip I shared. And hear it full range to understand the type of bottom end coming out of there whole remaining that tight. That is a very tough sound to get out of amps. Whether real or modeled. That's why the guy has a 2-year wait list. So this is not a dis on fractal. I already agree with the fact that fractal has great amp modeling. It's irrelevant. But Fractal has released a box that covers a wide variety of styles. It's not focused on one genre so I'm not blaming the company for anything. It's just a request to make some model insanely focused sounding like that.

If someone wants to try to get that type of ridiculously glassy and instant percussive rhythm sounds with that kind of dynamic character, I dare you to try. I bet you can't. Whether real or modeled.

I tried the Fractal Fredrick models and they are decent but a bit spongy compared to that.

But being a tube amp internal expert to play guitar is a bit much to ask for. But I'm trying.
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Hi. Thanks for the reply. Perhaps you aren't addressing me directly with some of your responses, but I'd like to address it anyhow.

I didn't think you were dissatisfied with the Axe. From your posts, it sounds like you are after a specific sound that you feel you cannot get within the existing amp models, hence the request for more metal oriented ones. As far as being able to modulate filters, perhaps some of the advanced parameters within the Amp block may provide some of that to you, if you haven't explored that route yet. The Wiki provided by Yek is a great resource. Again, I'm not sure how much of that you've gone into. I did listen to the Hermansson clip you shared, and I maintain that the sound of the amp is within the Axe's ability. I agree that it may be tough, but I'd add that it's not impossible. I didn't think you were dissing Fractal at all. It's alright to request whatever you'd like, it's a wishlist thread after all. It's all good.

If you dare people to try, that could be a fun tonal journey. It honestly, to my ears and through my monitoring, sounds completely possible for the Axe to achieve with the existing amp models.

Since you are saying you have an expertise in tube amps, then I know you'll eventually be able to get the tone you are looking for. The journey may require some roads that are outside of that expertise though. I think it'll be a good experience though and this thread you've started could be the start of it. I'd highly suggest checking out the Wiki's Amp block page if you haven't already, to see how the advanced parameters could serve you.
 
Have you tried dual amp presets with each amp filtered and mixed as you're suggesting? I'd be extremely surprised if you were unable to get a reasonably close tone to the examples provided (which in all honesty dont sound that unique to my ears) but regardless, the amount of tweaking available such as changing tone stacks, preamp/output tubes, allows for unparalleled tweaking. Maybe the multi-band Comp would get what your looking for in the low end thing?

I haven't yet encountered a heavy tone I wasn't able to approximate satisfactorily with the Fractal, maybe this Amp block wiki page will help identify possible parameters to try?

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amp_block
 
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AndrewJay said:
Since you are saying you have an expertise in tube amps, then I know you'll eventually be able to get the tone you are looking for. The journey may require some roads that are outside of that expertise though. I think it'll be a good experience though and this thread you've started could be the start of it. I'd highly suggest checking out the Wiki's Amp block page if you haven't already, to see how the advanced parameters could serve you.
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I haven't claimed any expertise whatsoever in tube amp engineering. I've made this clear that its no different than food taster's possible ignorance of how the cuisine he is tasting is made.

With that being said I understand about maybe 60 percent of how all the stuff in the amp block works from a tweaking perspective for sound sculpting. I'm still going through the wiki and block guide.

If anyone can nail down the dynamics of the Hermansson style Marshall with the fractal, I will pay money for the preset. Because so far all we have had here among members claiming it is possible is just talk and no evidence.
 
RackAddict said:
Well I can get some tight tones but I can't get anything to sound quite that percussive in the fractal. If you think it's possible then prove it.

And ya, even through the crappy phone Mic it sounds shocking. Shows how good the amp is. Imagine how good it would sound through a high end signal chain.

That Hermansson Fredrick Marshall sounds absolutely insane!
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My Axe-Fx 3 is all packed up for a move or I might take you up on the challenge.

The point was that the iPhone recording will influence what is picked up and won't represent how the amp sounds very well. Checked their channel and pretty much all their demos are this sort of garbage. If that sells amps then more power to them but I certainly would not buy one based on an iPhone recording.

But to match what you hear on the clip just try cutting a lot of bass with the input EQ and it should tighten up. Use graphic EQ to bring the low end back. Pretty standard Mesa Mark style setup you could apply to a Marshall-flavored high gain amp.
 
RackAddict said:
I haven't claimed any expertise whatsoever in tube amp engineering. I've made this clear that its no different than food taster's possible ignorance of how the cuisine he is tasting is made.

With that being said I understand about maybe 60 percent of how all the stuff in the amp block works from a tweaking perspective for sound sculpting. I'm still going through the wiki and block guide.

If anyone can nail down the dynamics of the Hermansson style Marshall with the fractal, I will pay money for the preset. Because so far all we have had here among members claiming it is possible is just talk and no evidence.
Click to expand...
"But being a tube amp internal expert to play guitar is a bit much to ask for. But I'm trying." This is the part that I misinterpreted. I see what you're saying now.

I know you are protective of your presets, but would you be comfortable talking about the gear you use? Guitar, pickups, power amp, cab, speakers, etc? I generally use dark mid-rangy low to medium output Gibson Les Pauls into the Axe, into a Matrix GT1000FX, into two Mesa EVM12L loaded Thiele cabs. When going direct, I like to use 4x12 EVM12L loaded IRs and monitor through a pair of M-Audio BX-5s (yeah, I need to upgrade them).

With that knowledge, perhaps we could better understand and then create a preset that has the tonal qualities you are looking for. Otherwise, it will be very difficult to, due to so many variables either being unknown or different.
 
Pull up the ENGL savage model, 2nd one I think it is where the voicing is more focused on high mids. Boost that with the grinder boost, the precision drive model, SD-1, etc. Whatever you prefer. Mesa 4x12 V30 IR's. Should get a very percussive / tight sound.

I remember back in the day before Fortin craze and YouTube salesmen galore, ENGL's were what we drooled over as metal guys. I still think the savage kicks most amps butts when it comes to uber tightness.
 
Hermansson is some God-tier tone. I've been following his career since he was modding PA powered mixer into monsters.

You can get fairly close to his signature sound by cutting bass and boosting 1.5-2k before it hits the amp, then adding the bass back afterwards either with output eq, or a parametric eq. It's crucial to cut the 400hz range, as that's his signature sound, as well as additional bumping of the 1.5-2k range.
 
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