Need help with IEM connection issue

[Jammin PA]

I am new to using IEM's and hoping they offer the same quality audio or better than my headphones. Currently the sound I'm getting through my IEM's, sound like a$$. I suspect that it is due to something I am ignorant about and just don't know any better because well, I've never attempted to use this gear before. Here is how I have things set up. From the FM3 OUTPUT 1 - to an Allen & Heath Zedi-8 compact USB mixer with XLR cables. From the mixer outputs to EV ZLX12 speakers (sounds great).
From the FM3 OUTPUT 2: using TRS cables to Sennheiser XSW transmitter. Now, I figured I would splurge and use gift cards from the family from this past xmas and also picked up a set of ASI 3DME Gen 2.

In the global settings, OUTPUT 2 is copying OUTPUT 1. I placed a parametric EQ on OUTPUT 1. When using my headphones. the tone sound kick a$$...but when I hooked up the IEM's, it sounded like poo...so I must have done something incorrectly. There is no way that IEM's will sound less than a great pair of headphones.

Any suggestions on where I screwed up? Thanks in advance !!

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[md1234]

Have you tried to compare them (headphones and IEM) direct connected to your phone when for instance listening to music? How does that sound?

 

[Rex]

In order to help you, we need something more to go on than "sounds like a$$" and "sounded like poo." In what way does it sound wrong?

 

[Jammin PA]

In order to help you, we need something more to go on than "sounds like a$$" and "sounded like poo." In what way does it sound wrong?

I guess I should have better articulated haha!! The sound quality is as if it's clipping. I don't have the volume cranked up on the body pack because when I so, there's a very noticeable hiss. I back it off until the hiss is hardly noticeable.
My chain from INPUT 1 through the amp, cab, effects, etc. to OUTPUT 1. I have a split off of the last effect (reverb) going to OUTPUT 1, that goes to OUTPUT 2. I was recently watching one of the videos on Cooper Carter's Masterclass, so I set my chain up that way.
I also noticed that while viewing the OUTPUT 2 on the (FM3 Edit), the levels are hardly moving. One OUTPUT 1 (FM3 Edit) levels are great. I have it set at -9db, which hardly tickles the red. As I mentioned earlier, I have OUTPUT 2 set to copy OUTPUT 1 and have the #2 Level on the FM3 unit, turned all the way up.

I feel as if I have improperly connected something either internally or externally. I just don't know where. My pedalboard has a Rockboard patchbay 3 V2 and prior to me diving into adding a mixer and using IEM's, I never had any issues. I have TSR cables coming out of the board, going straight into the transmitter. I am still confident that the quality of sound I get from using headphones, can be achieved with IEM's, it's just a matter of me figuring out where and how to correct the issues I'm having. Thanks!!

 

[Jammin PA]

Have you tried to compare them (headphones and IEM) direct connected to your phone when for instance listening to music? How does that sound?

No, I haven't tried that yet but will add that to my troubleshooting list. Thanks!!

 

[Rex]

I guess I should have better articulated haha!! The sound quality is as if it's clipping. I don't have the volume cranked up on the body pack because when I so, there's a very noticeable hiss. I back it off until the hiss is hardly noticeable.
My chain from INPUT 1 through the amp, cab, effects, etc. to OUTPUT 1. I have a split off of the last effect (reverb) going to OUTPUT 1, that goes to OUTPUT 2. I was recently watching one of the videos on Cooper Carter's Masterclass, so I set my chain up that way.
I also noticed that while viewing the OUTPUT 2 on the (FM3 Edit), the levels are hardly moving. One OUTPUT 1 (FM3 Edit) levels are great. I have it set at -9db, which hardly tickles the red. As I mentioned earlier, I have OUTPUT 2 set to copy OUTPUT 1 and have the #2 Level on the FM3 unit, turned all the way up.

I feel as if I have improperly connected something either internally or externally. I just don't know where. My pedalboard has a Rockboard patchbay 3 V2 and prior to me diving into adding a mixer and using IEM's, I never had any issues. I have TSR cables coming out of the board, going straight into the transmitter. I am still confident that the quality of sound I get from using headphones, can be achieved with IEM's, it's just a matter of me figuring out where and how to correct the issues I'm having. Thanks!!

You have Out2 set to copy Out1, but you also have an Out2 block in your preset. When there’s an Out2 bock present, the Copy Out1 function is ignored.

Go to Layout > Meters, and see where your signal level is getting cut.

 

[HughJasol]

Check the volume level on your IEM transmitter (rack unit). A very common issue is to have that set too high (check VU meters on front panel if you have them). You'll want to turn that down (usually somewhere between 10:00 and 2:00), and then turn up the volume on your receiver (body pack) to compensate. Also, if you do set that level with just your guitar playing through the IEMs, you may very likely need to adjust that level down even further once you have the full band mix in your ears.

EDIT: The point is that if that level on the transmitter is set too high, the signal going to your IEM receiver will be clipped, which sounds exactly like what's happening to you.

 

[Jammin PA]

You have Out2 set to copy Out1, but you also have an Out2 block in your preset. When there’s an Out2 bock present, the Copy Out1 function is ignored.

Go to Layout > Meters, and see where your signal level is getting cut.

I'll try and get a screen shot later tonight or tomorrow. Thanks!!

 

[Jammin PA]

Check the volume level on your IEM transmitter (rack unit). A very common issue is to have that set too high (check VU meters on front panel if you have them). You'll want to turn that down (usually somewhere between 10:00 and 2:00), and then turn up the volume on your receiver (body pack) to compensate. Also, if you do set that level with just your guitar playing through the IEMs, you may very likely need to adjust that level down even further once you have the full band mix in your ears.

EDIT: The point is that if that level on the transmitter is set too high, the signal going to your IEM receiver will be clipped, which sounds exactly like what's happening to you.

On this Particular Sennheiser transmitter, the only volume knob is for the headphone jack when being used. Though I will double check levels because I did notice on the front panel of the transmitter, the levels where peaked out. Thanks!!

 

[HughJasol]

On this Particular Sennheiser transmitter, the only volume knob is for the headphone jack when being used. Though I will double check levels because I did notice on the front panel of the transmitter, the levels where peaked out. Thanks!!

Yes, if the meters are peaking, that's definitely your issue then (or one of them, anyway). I'm not familiar with the Sennheiser (I use Carvin EM900s) ... perhaps it's a menu setting (?). Good luck!

 

[Jammin PA]

Here are some screen shot that may help further diagnose the issues I am having. I still feel there is something I am doing wrong, I just can't figure it out.


Pic #1 shows the levels for OUTPUT 1
Pic #2 shows the levels for OUTPUT 2
Pic #3 shows the Audio Setup
Pic #4 shows the OUT 1 EQ OUT 2 EQ is the exact same

I was able to get rid of the raspy/clipping in the audio, BUT the audio levels on the transmitter are still pegged out yet I have the body pack at level 2.

In the Audio tab, I changed OUTPUT 2 from Unity Gain to Line Level...although it increased the level, it sounded horrible so I switched it back.

The way I intended this preset to be designed was to send a OUTPUT 1 to a mixer, then to FRFR speakers, and the OUTPUT 2 straight to the IEM transmitter. As far as I am aware, this should work but at the moment, I', feeling kinda dumb. Thanks for any help.

 

[Doogz]

Hiya

A couple of thoughts and comments ... not necessarily in order (but try Number One first)

Plug your IEM's into Out 1, and see if it still sounds like a$$? If all good - happy days, try the below to get Out 2 working like Out 1. If it doesn't sound good (and assuming the IEM's sound great anyway!), it is either a software setting, or physical (have you checked all cables, especially down the IEM signal chain)?

Once the above has been checked, try removing Out 2, and re-instating copy Out 1 to Out 2. This should help tell whether it is an Out 2 setting, or some other levelling setting, and it also assumes that Out 1 sounds good when connected directly to IEM's. If it doesn't then it could be something in your IEM signal chain - either cabling or levels down that chain (I agree with the previous feedback RE the gain settings down the IEM signal chain).

If you can get IEM to sound good through Out 1, and you definitely want to use Out 2 the way you originall describe, check out and follow the preset levelling tips in the FM3 User Manual. If you open the Layout Grid as per the below pick, you should see VU meters for Outs 1 & 2, and you'll be able to see if the (software) levels are mismatched ...

 

[Jammin PA]

Hiya

A couple of thoughts and comments ... not necessarily in order (but try Number One first)

Plug your IEM's into Out 1, and see if it still sounds like a$$? If all good - happy days, try the below to get Out 2 working like Out 1. If it doesn't sound good (and assuming the IEM's sound great anyway!), it is either a software setting, or physical (have you checked all cables, especially down the IEM signal chain)?

Once the above has been checked, try removing Out 2, and re-instating copy Out 1 to Out 2. This should help tell whether it is an Out 2 setting, or some other levelling setting, and it also assumes that Out 1 sounds good when connected directly to IEM's. If it doesn't then it could be something in your IEM signal chain - either cabling or levels down that chain (I agree with the previous feedback RE the gain settings down the IEM signal chain).

If you can get IEM to sound good through Out 1, and you definitely want to use Out 2 the way you originall describe, check out and follow the preset levelling tips in the FM3 User Manual. If you open the Layout Grid as per the below pick, you should see VU meters for Outs 1 & 2, and you'll be able to see if the (software) levels are mismatched ...

View attachment 118515

Thank you !!! I will try this tonight after work

 

[Rumbletone]

Lots of good info/suggestions above, and based on the facts you’ve provided the most likely culprit is that something is clipping (likely the input to the transmitter?). As a starting point I’d try reducing the level significantly at the output 2 block to see if this fixes the issue in whole or in part.

And if the meters don’t shown output2 as clipping, then rather than changing the output gain on the FM3 you may wish to lower the input gain on the IEM transmitter - see https://www.sennheiser-sites.com/re...02_Instructions_EN.3.23.html#wwconnect_header

Note that output2 is unbalanced, so there’s no need to use TRS cables (they don’t make the connection balanced). If noise is an issue for the IEMs but not for the mixer/mains, consider using output1 for the IEMs so you can use its balanced outputs to the IEM transmitter’s balanced inputs. It appears that the mixer doesn’t even have line level XLR inputs (it appears to have only mic inputs or unbalanced instrument or line inputs) so not sure it makes sense to use output1 to go to the mixer anyway - even though it sounds like you’re happy with that connection, it may be better going from output2 into the instrument inputs on the mixer.

 

[ConstantM]

if IEM sound is harsh and tiresome try a cut in 6-7khz with a medium Q. i read somewhere that inside the ear canal these frequencies get very prominent and by taming them you can emulate the over-ear headphone sound a bit better

 

[HughJasol]

Not sure which Sennheiser you have, but looking quickly at the EW300 manual, I would check/set the "Input Sensitivity" in the Main Menu (or similar setting if you don't have this exact setting).

 

[Jammin PA]

Hiya

A couple of thoughts and comments ... not necessarily in order (but try Number One first)

Plug your IEM's into Out 1, and see if it still sounds like a$$? If all good - happy days, try the below to get Out 2 working like Out 1. If it doesn't sound good (and assuming the IEM's sound great anyway!), it is either a software setting, or physical (have you checked all cables, especially down the IEM signal chain)?

Once the above has been checked, try removing Out 2, and re-instating copy Out 1 to Out 2. This should help tell whether it is an Out 2 setting, or some other levelling setting, and it also assumes that Out 1 sounds good when connected directly to IEM's. If it doesn't then it could be something in your IEM signal chain - either cabling or levels down that chain (I agree with the previous feedback RE the gain settings down the IEM signal chain).

If you can get IEM to sound good through Out 1, and you definitely want to use Out 2 the way you originall describe, check out and follow the preset levelling tips in the FM3 User Manual. If you open the Layout Grid as per the below pick, you should see VU meters for Outs 1 & 2, and you'll be able to see if the (software) levels are mismatched ...

View attachment 118515

Life slowed down for me to continue trouble shooting. I switched out the IEM's from OUTPUT 2 to OUTPUT 1 and still having issues, though not getting that nasty clipping audio. I did check the levels and all are good to go....but OUTPUT 2 is still registering low on the meter read out. I notice that when using my regular over ear headphones through the headphone port on the FM3, the sound quality is stellar....but using either OUTPUT 1 or OUTPUT 2 to the IEM's, there is a big difference in quality sound and volume. I try to keep the volume knob on the body pack down enough due to the white noise hiss ( I don't get that with my over ear headphones). I lowered db on the transmitter from -3 to -5 and it didn't help much. On the FM3, If I attempt to slightly increase the OUTPUT 1 from it's current setting (-8db) to (-5db), the levels do more than tickle the red. I'm not sure what else to try. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!!

 

[md1234]

Since you did not mention (i think), have you ever had good sound from your IEMs in a simple setup like plugging them direct into a device like smartphone (as i suggested in post #2)?

 

[Doogz]

Life slowed down for me to continue trouble shooting. I switched out the IEM's from OUTPUT 2 to OUTPUT 1 and still having issues, though not getting that nasty clipping audio. I did check the levels and all are good to go....but OUTPUT 2 is still registering low on the meter read out. I notice that when using my regular over ear headphones through the headphone port on the FM3, the sound quality is stellar....but using either OUTPUT 1 or OUTPUT 2 to the IEM's, there is a big difference in quality sound and volume. I try to keep the volume knob on the body pack down enough due to the white noise hiss ( I don't get that with my over ear headphones). I lowered db on the transmitter from -3 to -5 and it didn't help much. On the FM3, If I attempt to slightly increase the OUTPUT 1 from it's current setting (-8db) to (-5db), the levels do more than tickle the red. I'm not sure what else to try. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!!

Can you post photos of the setup, and the full model number of the IEM's?

@md1234 has a good point - have the IEM's ever sounded good? Can you change the earpieces on the IEM's - if yes, can you plug your good sounding headphones?

I'm certainty happy to be corrected - I believe the headphone out on the FM3 is based on Out 1.

If the IEM volume is too low, and/or hissy, there is definitely a gain structure issue. Something is entering (or exiting) the signal chain way too low for the next thing in the chain. This could be a software setting, a switch (eg -10, +6db) mismatch (the in setting for the next element in the chain doesn't match the out setting of the previous element), or it could be a dodgy cable (have you checked these)?

 

[ucnick]

Do you by any chance have a gain select switch on your beltpack receiver?

I had the exact same experience last weekend at a gig with my FM9T, ran OUT 1 into my IEMs and OUT2 into the PA. My IEMS sounded really bad, particularly on dirty settings, like very bad digital clipping. My IEM mixer (an old Shure PSM 200 system) didn't show overload, and had me scratching my head. I didn't figure it until just before 3rd set and spotted the receiver gain switch was in the HI position. Hm. So I moved it to LO and... problem disappeared! I had forgotten about that switch >facepalm<. It didn't occur last time I used it, so must have been moved inadvertently.