Need help with gain sounds, please!

Poozer79

Poozer79

Member
This is a continuation from 5150's Van Halen Brown sound in 10 minutes thread. I apologize again for bombing that thread. Frustration and a sixer of New Castle got the best of me last night. So, here is a recording of what I'm getting. The first part is with the exact settings from the video and the second part is with the boost switch on, the saturation switch on ideal and the saturation drive on 4. I was using my Jackson Misha HT6 with Juggernauts. There's more gain there on the first part then I had originally stated in the previous thread but, it's still not like the tone in the video until I make the other adjustments.



Again, I've had this type of "lower gain" issue with other patches I've copied from tutorial videos. I'm fairly sure it's something I'm doing wrong, I just don't know what. Thanks in advance for any and all help and suggestions!! :encouragement:

Here's the patch:View attachment Not so Van Halen.syx
 
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Yes, you know it when you've supped 6 bottles of Newcastle Brown Ale :witless:
It sounds like your pickups are out of phase maybe.
 
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Tried your preset. Seems fine, with the correct settings from the video. Except for Motor Drive at 3 in Cab, or did I miss that in the video?

Sounds fine too. As does your recorded tone. Different? Yes. Must the guitar,.

But I don't hear an alarming lack of gain.
 
Marrafat said:
Yes, you know it when you've supped 6 bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale :witless:
It sounds like your pickups are out of phase maybe.
Click to expand...

I hope my pickups aren't out of phase. That would mean they are out of phase on all 3 of my guitars...:eek:
 
yek said:
Tried your preset. Seems fine, with the correct settings from the video. Except for Motor Drive at 3 in Cab, or did I miss that in the video?

Sounds fine too. As does your recorded tone. Different? Yes. Must the guitar,.

But I don't hear an alarming lack of gain.
Click to expand...

Thanks Yek. Maybe it's just me and my shot ears. I guess I just figured the Juggernauts, although not intended for this type of sound, would at least get me in the ballpark as far as output goes.

I guess I just like absurd amounts of gain...:shame:

EDIT: The motor drive on 3 was an oops on my part. It should have been on 0.
 
Mine did not work the same either its the OP's pickups are hotter then ours.
Try this :

BB PRE in drive block before amp
drive 2.80 tone 5 low cut 700 high cut 800 si diode mix 100% level 4.82
leave all the rest of the settings alone and you can adjust the drive and levels
to taste and tell me if that does not get you what your after...

It worked for me here but I did not realize the drive block was on
and I tried it with it off and its not that much gain because my pups are not as hot.

To determine your pickups ratings use an ohm meter plug guitar plug into guitar and other end measure tip and sleave with ohm meter. Then select neck middle or bridge pickup and write down the measurements..

A normal paf humbucker might be 7.5 or 8 but the Op's pickups might read
11 or hotter if he reads this perhaps he can measure them and tell us
you can make the difference up using the drive block and cheating like I did.
:)

It sounds phenomenal with that BB pre to my ears and I dialed that patch
up while using jbl monitors as source reference of the OP's video
so when I was getting the same reaction I hit store enter enter and save on axe edit and
rawked my ballz off till about 4 am last night ..

Its ok to use a drive block to get what you want if you just want that much power straight in
then measure you pickups and see if the OP will measure his and see the difference
you can then say ok I want some pups with these ratings and load those up into the guitar if you want straight in power.

You might also try a different style amp to get the same result
something which is voiced to begin with that way modified marshall sound..

CA Triptik or Friedman something hopped up and angry in the marshall flavor
and you might plug straight in and get that power with no drive block.
Its a matter of preference for me Id rather build up too it dynamically then just have
no control over the locomotive in the livingroom...

Some amps are just brutal loud in the real physical realm and they go from semi ok to just blaring loud in a hurry so not much dynamic control there if its blowing your head off out of the chute..

But its subjective I want a patch that will do that too just melt faces straight in no drive block
everything has its place..

From clean to mean.
Im going for dynamics ..

I have a Db meter someone suggested so I can measure volume
when its time for me to join or start a band id ask the drummer and band
to play as softly as they normally would as well as hard and loud as they ever would
and measure both and in between volumes.

Then you could approach things dynamically before you ever started
so volumes set in the mix correctly..

I want them to tell me hey could you turn up a bit ?
Not run for the exits ..

Then, THEN you can let them have IT.
a method too the madness..

Well you said turn it up you guys all said to turn it up some
:)

I not the bad guy.....
 
Thanks for the help and suggestions guys. I really appreciate it. And another apology to 5150 for bombing his thread last night. My favorite Van Halen album is Balance and "Don't Tell Me" is one of my favorite Van Halen songs so I did some more tweaking and got really close (I think so at least) to that tone. Let me know what you guys think. Apologies for the sloppy playing. I'm still not over last night's festivities...;)

 
Tex Axe said:
@Poozer79 did you try the BB drive block ? I think your pickups sound just fine ...
Click to expand...

I didn't use the BB in the last clip. I did some tweaking in the amp block with the boost switch, input drive, saturation switch and saturation drive. I actually lowered the input drive some more after listening to the clip a couple of times. I made a couple of other adjustments as well.

Here's the patch the way: View attachment Van Haggar.syx

The patch is set up so that scene 1 is 5150's patch with my tweaks for my guitar (which has a Bareknuckle Mule in the bridge), Scene 2 adds a phaser block, Scene 3 adds a pitch block for the "Balance" album effect and scene 4 has both the phaser and pitch block on for shits and giggles. Scenes 5-8 add the BB for a lead boost.

Give it a shot and let me know what you guys think :encouragement:
 
FractalAudio said:
Make sure your input is configured correctly. I constantly see people setting Input 1 Mode to stereo which cuts your gain in half. Why they do this is a mystery.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Cliff! I just checked my I/O and the input is set to Left Only, using the rear input.
 
Poozer79 said:
I didn't use the BB in the last clip. I did some tweaking in the amp block with the boost switch, input drive, saturation switch and saturation drive. I actually lowered the input drive some more after listening to the clip a couple of times. I made a couple of other adjustments as well.

Here's the patch the way: View attachment 27652

The patch is set up so that scene 1 is 5150's patch with my tweaks for my guitar (which has a Bareknuckle Mule in the bridge), Scene 2 adds a phaser block, Scene 3 adds a pitch block for the "Balance" album effect and scene 4 has both the phaser and pitch block on for shits and giggles. Scenes 5-8 add the BB for a lead boost.

Give it a shot and let me know what you guys think :encouragement:
Click to expand...

Im setup for 5 scenes here but Ill try it regardless too hear it and learn..

Going back through patches and double checking what every efx is set too in bypass mode area
the wise one told me some tricks tonight again and so ive been going through bank C working every amp
and patch Its going to be a long long week ill be getting a tan from the monitor here.

@Funeral major improvement in sound and thank you for guiding me through again
I feel dumb as a post sometimes I read things and get confused and I FINALL saw where
you can assign controllers.. I was looking right at it and im on a Mac and for Mac users here
you have to mouse over the middle of the pot you wish to control and push control button down on keyboard
and while the mouse is over the pull down window appears...
HELLO !

So for the past hour ive been delving through every patch making sure whats series is set for through and whats parallel is set for
mute in if those efx blocks are at end of path.

I finally figured how to assign the controllers thanks to Funeral..
So im doing it over and over and over to burn it into my muscle memory...

I know this without the help of the forum members and locals where I live Id be lost.
We have some great teachers on this forum Funeral is very patient sometimes I
cant see the forest through the trees but I keep at it and then go OH DOH I FINALLY GOT IT..

Never give up be patient and someone will appear to help you..
If they really really help you and you feel compelled to compensate them I think thats great
I sure did and ive learned a great deal here..

Keep attacking things from all angles and it will pay off..
 
FractalAudio said:
Make sure your input is configured correctly. I constantly see people setting Input 1 Mode to stereo which cuts your gain in half. Why they do this is a mystery.
Click to expand...

for me, and a few others, our Input 1 is set to Stereo so we can use 2 guitars or 2 separate input signals at the same time and process them separately. personally, it hasn't been a problem for me to get great tones for my electric guitar sound even if the gain is reduced because of it. i just turn the knobs to where they need to be. i believe you mentioned i should increase the Input Trim to 2 or 2.5 in my live stream a couple weeks ago? i'll keep this in mind as i build presets from now on, just to see what it gets me.

the flexibility of the Stereo input allows me to bring ONLY the Axe to the gig, and not need a separate preamp like a Eureka, and lets me use the Echo function since i'm not using the FX Loop just for a 2nd input, or adding effects to the separate preamp path.
 
Poozer79 said:
Thanks for the help and suggestions guys. I really appreciate it. And another apology to 5150 for bombing his thread last night. My favorite Van Halen album is Balance and "Don't Tell Me" is one of my favorite Van Halen songs so I did some more tweaking and got really close (I think so at least) to that tone. Let me know what you guys think. Apologies for the sloppy playing. I'm still not over last night's festivities...;)

Click to expand...


Damn! This was on point, great sound! Also one of my favorite eras and albums so maybe I'm biased.
 
FractalAudio said:
Make sure your input is configured correctly. I constantly see people setting Input 1 Mode to stereo which cuts your gain in half. Why they do this is a mystery.
Click to expand...
I use Input 1 in stereo mode because I have Ghost piezo installed in one of my guitars. Passive mag signal from the humbuckers to tip, active piezo signal to ring. I then use left side routed to amp-cab blocks and right side to another route of blocks for piezo signal in the same preset. I choose mag or piezo route by muting one of the block in that route.

But how do I compensate for the loss of gain when using stereo inputs?

Is there any other drawbacks in form of audio processing (lower resolution or something) when using only one side of the stereo inputs?

Sent fra min SM-G920F via Tapatalk
 
ynor said:
But how do I compensate for the loss of gain when using stereo inputs?

Is there any other drawbacks in form of audio processing (lower resolution or something) when using only one side of the stereo inputs?
Click to expand...

no, there is no reduced quality.

just raise the Input Trim in the Amp block to 2. but you could also just turn the Drive/Gain knobs until they do what you want - the values might just be higher than someone else on Left only. but again, no reduction in quality.

i've been running Stereo input specifically for the Electric & Piezo dual input for over 5 years with no problems in tone or gain.
 
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