Need help. Cannot get the 4CM to work right.

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darkestdays

New Member
Hi everyone! Just got my Ultra a couple months ago, and I just got around to trying the four cable method, and I just have no idea what's wrong. It's getting to the point of frustration, so I thought I would try the forums.

Anyways, I have the Axe hooked up to my 5150 like so:
Guitar into Axe front input.
Axe fx left output 1 into 5150 fx return.
5150 fx send into axe effects return input 2 (left).
axe effects send output 2 (left) into 5150 front input.

I have it on the bypass preset (383) with an non bypassed FX loop block in the chain.

I can't get any or very little output to my amp, it seems.

I/O menu shows it's set to analog front, and in the audio sub menu it's set as:
Input 1: left only
Input 2: left only
Output 1 mode: L R sum (tried all the other options)
Copy out 1 to out 2: off (tried all the other options, actually I've tried the options on everything in this menu)

I have front input and output levels turned up. I have checked the output levels in the effects loop block, in global settings, and pretty much everywhere that I can adjust the gain in an options menu.

I have tested the effects loop of the 5150 with several pedals, and it works fine. I have tested all of my cables. I also tried running a pedal through the axe fx effects loop to test it and it seemed to work.

The only sound coming through the amp is just a very quiet distorted tone, and I cant seem to adjust the master output level to the amp like I should be able to with the Axe FX level controls.

When I go to the utility menu and check the levels, the only thing that reads are the L1 input, and L2 and R2 outputs. I just can't figure it out.

Anyways, I have to go into work, so I'll get on again in the morning, and answer questions if you have any. I appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you!
 
You have it hooked up wrong.

Guitar (cable 1)--->Axe-Fx input--->Axe-Fx effects loop out (cable2)--->5150 input jack--->5150 effects send (cable 3)--->Axe-Fx effects loop in--->Axe-Fx out (cable 4)--->5150 effects return.

But it won't work anyway, for two reasons. The effects loop on the 5150 is parallel not serial. The four cable method only works if the effects loop is in series. Second, I don't believe the Axe-Fx standard or Ultra is designed to be used in a true 4CM mode, it will color your amps tone. I think the Axe-Fx II has fixed this issue.
 
You can take the 5150 to a local tech shop and for a small fee ($50-100) they can mod the loop to be in series. My friend recently had his Engl Savage effects loop done in series and now his Decimator works exactly like it should. Pure amp tone, with no noise.
 
element said:
You have it hooked up wrong.

Guitar (cable 1)--->Axe-Fx input--->Axe-Fx effects loop out (cable2)--->5150 input jack--->5150 effects send (cable 3)--->Axe-Fx effects loop in--->Axe-Fx out (cable 4)--->5150 effects return.

But it won't work anyway, for two reasons. The effects loop on the 5150 is parallel not serial. The four cable method only works if the effects loop is in series. Second, I don't believe the Axe-Fx standard or Ultra is designed to be used in a true 4CM mode, it will color your amps tone. I think the Axe-Fx II has fixed this issue.
Click to expand...

Posting this from my phone.
Thanks for the reply, but the description of the hookup routing you gave is the way I have it hooked up. Did I post it differently? Im also pretty sure that the 5150 has a series loop.
 
darkestdays said:
but the description of the hookup routing you gave is the way I have it hooked up. Did I post it differently? Im also pretty sure that the 5150 has a series loop.
Click to expand...
My apologies, I read your routing incorrect. Yes, you have it hooked up the way I described. The 5150 is in parallel, my friend also owns a 5150 and the 4CM didn't work. It had the original amp tone, along with the altered wet signal. And lost a lot in volume. But don't take my word for it. Do some searches with folks with the 5150 and effects loop issues.
 
Even if it is parallel, I should be able to get more than whisper volumes out of the amp right? It's like part of the effects loop in the axe isnt sending a signal or something. Or a very low output is being sent to the 5150 power amp.
 
Aside from parallel loop stuff, something must be odd with the Axe settings or routing. Normally there should be at least some activity on the utility menu Out 2 meter if set up how you described.

Check levels/balance on the first FXL edit page. See if turning the row or main slider way up does anything. Check global Out 2 EQ settings. If using a MIDI controller and not 100% sure exactly what it's sending at any time, set OUT2 VOL (I/O menu, CTRL page) to "NONE" and reboot the Axe.
 
darkestdays said:
Even if it is parallel, I should be able to get more than whisper volumes out of the amp right? It's like part of the effects loop in the axe isnt sending a signal or something. Or a very low output is being sent to the 5150 power amp.
Click to expand...
It's odd. I worked with my friends Engl and 5150 and the volume just diminishes. It's only until he had the effects loop wired in series that the Engl worked properly. You'll find that most effect loops can only handle line level effects, like chorus, delay or reverb stomp boxes.
 
Um.... My stock 5150 effects loop is serial..... Ive used my axefx in 4cm with my 5150 and it works fine except for some hum on high gain sounds.
 
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