Need a sharp, strident rhythm tone

W

Wildwind

Experienced
For one of our worship songs. it's mostly 2 or 3 string intervals played around the octave. Strong pick attack. Fairly staccato. Needs to really command the mix. There are some higher-position power chords in there too, but the intervals are the main part.

Any recommendations for amps or other ways to achieve such a tone?. Sorry, i have no exammples. Song is In Jesus' Name by Hillsongs. It's pretty driving, in the rock vein. I'm up against two (sometimes three) keyboards, an acoustic guitar, and 4 to 6 backup singers. Playing a Strat with DiMarzio Area/VV and a Suhr Thornucker in the bridge. I'm using the Suhr all the way through, tone up full. Excellent sound system and band. Everything runs direct - no cabs used on stage.

Right now I've fallen back to the Budda (Buttery) model, which is the most strident amp I've ID'd thus far. Delays are shut off, reverb well down. One Scene uses a TS808Mod, but this rhythm tone is amp drive only. Mids are cranked. What I have sounds pretty good, but I'm thinking I can do better with your help. I was using the Shiva at practice and the WL (acoustic guitarist as well) felt my tone needed tweaking to be effective. We've done the song for years, but we are always refining things as time goes on.

Thanks!

Greg
 
I'm using the Nuclear Tone w/Boost engaged, Hot Kitty and 1987X Jump with a Triple Tele or PRS with TV Jones Powertrons for a lot of the driven worship tones. The Nuclear Tone has recently become one of my go to amps for this style. With my PRS I've been able to nail the lead tones in this song we're doing this weekend.

 
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Here's the preset, I appreciate when guys post the preset they're talking about.
Didn't post it earlier as I had 2 teeth pulled today but my wife was gracious enough to set up my AX8 so I could have access to it.

I realize it's not the song you're referencing but just FYI:
Scene 1 is for the intro, turnaround and pre chorus licks.
Scene 2 is the verse and chorus dotted eighth feel.
Add the Pitch block to scene 1 for the bridge.
 

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Wildwind said:
For one of our worship songs. it's mostly 2 or 3 string intervals played around the octave. Strong pick attack. Fairly staccato. Needs to really command the mix. There are some higher-position power chords in there too, but the intervals are the main part.

Any recommendations for amps or other ways to achieve such a tone?. Sorry, i have no exammples. Song is In Jesus' Name by Hillsongs. It's pretty driving, in the rock vein. I'm up against two (sometimes three) keyboards, an acoustic guitar, and 4 to 6 backup singers. Playing a Strat with DiMarzio Area/VV and a Suhr Thornucker in the bridge. I'm using the Suhr all the way through, tone up full. Excellent sound system and band. Everything runs direct - no cabs used on stage.

Right now I've fallen back to the Budda (Buttery) model, which is the most strident amp I've ID'd thus far. Delays are shut off, reverb well down. One Scene uses a TS808Mod, but this rhythm tone is amp drive only. Mids are cranked. What I have sounds pretty good, but I'm thinking I can do better with your help. I was using the Shiva at practice and the WL (acoustic guitarist as well) felt my tone needed tweaking to be effective. We've done the song for years, but we are always refining things as time goes on.

Thanks!

Greg
Click to expand...
It would be helpful if you could find some commercial examples of what you mean by "strident" (I assume you want something that cuts hard through the mix, but there are a lot of ways to do this), and what kinds of sounds your keyboards are generating. Are they playing ambient tones, organ tones, piano tones, etc. The Buttery amp is definitely a punchy, cutting tone. I would check out the Prince Tone RV model, the Twin, or the USA Rhythmn (you will need to spend some time with EQ on this last amp). If you need more gain, I would look into the Citrus A30, the Morgan AC20, or the CA models. That said, with some tweaking, you can get a strong cutting tone from almost any amp, it just depends on what kind of sound you're looking for and what your mix sounds like. Good luck!
 
Hi Greg,
I hear you about trying to fit into the mix and be heard for all the hard work we put into this!
I recently purchased some of Moke's presets. I contacted him to ask for his opinion on helping me achieve the same type thing.

Tomorrow will be the first time using his Plexi preset live.
I find with the guitars volume knob, this preset covers a lot of ground!

I am really looking forward to more PLAYING and less tweaking!
 
Hi Greg. I suggest you check out @Moke or @2112. Both guys are great players, and preset builders. I'm guessing that somewhere out there is a preset that will bake your muffins. Also, you could try building one of your own. I am not familiar with the particular song you are trying to emulate. If you choose to build your own, start with an amp that has some of what you are looking for. My favorite amp for punchy stuff is the Tucana. It is also a very versatile amp. I am not at my studio computer right now or I would attach the preset. I'll go there and attach it. It currently has a delay, which you probably don't want for staccato intervals, but you can just bypass the delay.
 
Thanks for the excellent responses. Cam, we do our own version of most of these songs. Anything I could post would not prove illustrative. We usually tailor these to our band and instruments. This one gets played with more edge and drive than the original. But you have described my desired tone far better than I did. I am grateful for your understanding.

I am exploring these suggestions now. Thus far, I think the Budda will stay in place. It's an amp I've used in the past on similar songs. Killing the delay and decresing the reverb got me most of the way there. Turning down the input gain and raising the level to compensate seemed to handle the rest. I'll mess with some IRs, but the one I had seems to hit pretty hard and is pleasing to my ear.

Geezer, I will check out the Moke presets. I was not aware of them. The only presets I have bought are the Austin Buddy set. It's handy having a studio reference for all these great amps and cabs.

And thanks for the presets. I will check them out. I recently converted my main patch set over the the Tucana 3. But I'm always messing with things and refining as I go.

ScottP - I wish you well tomorrow as you try out Moke's Plexi. AX8 is an amazing worship platform. I played my Axe-Fx 2 for several years before the AX8. The AX8 has won me over as a live platform and the Axe-Fx will get sold. But each day I play, i look down and get this smile on my face, delighted that I have the privilege and honor of playing such amazing gear.

I will save the text from this thread for future reference. And I'll say again what you already know. Fractal rocks hard! And this forum represents the best as well. My sincere thanks!

Greg
 
I failed to mention Sonofiam. Sorry! Thanks for posting your preset and your sincere effort the hlep me out. Heal up, my friend. And bless your wife for a strong assist. I will definitely be dialing this one up before the day is through. I don't know that song but will check it out.

Greg
 
Sounds to me like you are on the right path brother. If you are looking for a Budda sound, then the Tucana preset will likely not work. You can try building a Budda preset. I would suggest factory cab #34 or or the Cellestion Creambacks. I think the Creambacks are factory #189. If neither of those cabs work, then there a bazillion others to try. The cab makes a huge difference in the tone and response of the rig.

In the amp block, under Dynamics, set the output compression at 2. The Budda is a very dynamic amp so set the input drive to a place where you like it. When setting drive, I usually back the guitar volume down a bit to set the drive. Once I get that where I like it, then I try cranking the guitar to see how it sounds. i play with my guitar volume a lot when playing live so I find a good balance between my rhythm sound and driving the guitar hard. You also might try adding a drive. Set the drive mix at 50% or less, and a low drive setting (perhaps at 2). It will add a bit of punch. If you are looking for a clean drive, then the Zen or Timothy might work. Good luck on your quest.
 
Thanks GeezerJohn! I will follow your advice. Some of those deeper settings are a mystery to me.

The Budda patch I used this morning sounded pretty good, but I know I can do better. What has been shared here will help me immensely. However, this song is a bit unique for us and is no longer in heavy rotation (we've done it for years), so not sure when I'll have another shot at this. Still, these lessons will find other appications.

Again all, my thanks!

Greg
 
Just a quick follow up on using Moke's Plexi live today...
It worked great! I use a wireless so I have the ability to go out and listen to what is coming out of the mains.
Really happy with it! I am surprised at how well the Plexi cleans up with the guitars volume knob.
It will give me more texture for sure. I'll just need a bit of time to learn all that it can do.
 
"Strident" is all about voicing, and that means EQ.

Try a Filter block after the cab. Set it to Peaking with 3 to 5 dB of boost to start, with broad Q. Sweep the frequency until you find something closer to what you're looking for, then fine-tune the filter to taste.

You're competing with three keyboards — which can be shameless spectrum hogs — and who knows what else. You may have to hunt a bit to find the frequencies that work best for you and your band.


If you want staccato and punchiness, don't be too heavy-handed with gain. That can squash dynamics. (TBH, "staccato" is all about how you play. It's not a tone.)


When you say "played around the octave," you mean you're actually playing octaves, right? Because that will help you stand out in the mix, compared to playing power chords or other intervals. Especially when played with a little gain.
 
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