Natural feedback at any volume?

MisterScary

Member
Is it possible to achieve natural feedback for a preset at lower volumes? Prior to owning the Axe FX, I used to play through a Marshall SLP amp and 1960a Celestion loaded 4x12 cab. At high volumes I would get natural feedback very easily. At lower volumes, I'd have to bring my guitar closer to the speaker/cab to get the feedback. I know there's a pedal that emulates this effect:
digitech-freqout-frequency-dynamic-feedback-generator_1024x.jpg
However, since the Axe FX is, among other great things, a supercomputer, I don't know what I should tweak to try and achieve the effect. My preset is based on a 100w Marshall Plexi and I'm using stock IRs. I'm trying to achieve that feedback Angus creates after the first 4 notes of "Shoot to Thrill." ;) My gear includes the Axe FX III with a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Studio cab and an SG (of course).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
"Natural feedback" doesn't happen at just any volume, either. Only once a volume level reaches a threshold and starts feeding back. Freqout does a respectable imitation, IMO, but doesn't really feel natural to me. And it's long been a request to do something like it or better in the AxeFX world.
 
Is it possible to achieve natural feedback for a preset at lower volumes? Prior to owning the Axe FX, I used to play through a Marshall SLP amp and 1960a Celestion loaded 4x12 cab. At high volumes I would get natural feedback very easily. At lower volumes, I'd have to bring my guitar closer to the speaker/cab to get the feedback. I know there's a pedal that emulates this effect:
View attachment 92384
However, since the Axe FX is, among other great things, a supercomputer, I don't know what I should tweak to try and achieve the effect. My preset is based on a 100w Marshall Plexi and I'm using stock IRs. I'm trying to achieve that feedback Angus creates after the first 4 notes of "Shoot to Thrill." ;) My gear includes the Axe FX III with a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Studio cab and an SG (of course).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
True feedback requires acoustic-coupling between the speaker and the guitar. You have to have enough volume to move enough air so that the pressure waves shake the strings. That vibration is captured by the pickups, returned through the amp to the speaker, and back to the guitar.

That acoustic-coupling provides more than simply shaking the string though. Cliff talks about it here and there, such as in The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth.

I fiddle with feedback quite a bit, and volume or distance from the amp, and the guitar itself, can make or break whether it'll happen. A Deluxe sized amp with a 1x12 turned up from 4' away can do it nicely and at a volume that won't kill you. A Princeton can do it when standing closer. My semi-hollow is more finicky than my solid-body guitars because it's more resonant and seems to be more likely to want to shake at a different frequency, whereas my PRS 509 and Studio guitars will let me do it almost at will. And, some people try to tell us that modelers and FRFR can't get it, but that's arguing against physics, because, again, it's acoustic-coupling. That said, time-based effects, like chorus or delay can cause frequency shifts and phasing that cancels the string's vibration reinforcement and kills the feedback you'd normally get.
 
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High gain and compression will reliably get you there, though that may not be the base tone you want. I personally find the Legacy II model moves into feedback pretty easily, but it’s not a tone I go to often (I’m consistently in the low gain/clean side of things).

Outside of that, you’re at the mercy of the guitar you are using and volume. I have a few guitars that will feedback without too much gain or volume, and one that generally resists.

Lastly is just manipulating physics, such as turning your guitar to various angles or distances from the speaker. Some notes will feedback when I’m facing 180 degrees away from the speaker, but a whole step up requires me to turn 45-90 degrees for the same response. And there’s always the headstock on your cabinet trick, but that almost always leads to lower tones feeding back.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! Unfortunately lots of volume isn't an option for me at home, but I'll certainly have a look at the Output Compressor of the Amp block and see how it works. 🤞
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! Unfortunately lots of volume isn't an option for me at home, but I'll certainly have a look at the Output Compressor of the Amp block and see how it works. 🤞
There are some good simulations of the freqout in the links Greg provided above. I think they'll make you happy. IF you have a free expression pedal I like blending it in better than using a control switch.
 
Is it possible to achieve natural feedback for a preset at lower volumes? Prior to owning the Axe FX, I used to play through a Marshall SLP amp and 1960a Celestion loaded 4x12 cab. At high volumes I would get natural feedback very easily. At lower volumes, I'd have to bring my guitar closer to the speaker/cab to get the feedback. I know there's a pedal that emulates this effect:
View attachment 92384
However, since the Axe FX is, among other great things, a supercomputer, I don't know what I should tweak to try and achieve the effect. My preset is based on a 100w Marshall Plexi and I'm using stock IRs. I'm trying to achieve that feedback Angus creates after the first 4 notes of "Shoot to Thrill." ;) My gear includes the Axe FX III with a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Studio cab and an SG (of course).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


This is a frequent topic on the forum. IMHO, your options for feedback that doesn't depend on volume include:

1) Use a synth block. Generate an infinitely sustained tone an octave or two above the note you're playing and mix that in with an expression pedal. It's tricky to get good results, but in a pinch it will do.
2) Freqout. It's not without artifacts, but it's an amazing pedal.
3) Sustainiac. It's a difficult retrofit, but the results are better than a Freqout.
 
Highjack post warning! Doing an all in ear's project and there are a couple songs I could use that natural feedback. Was thinking of getting some kind of small powered speaker / amp just for the purpose of sticking the guitar up to for feedback. Something I could set on a stand guitar height and battery powered would be ideal. Run a separate output with expression control when needed. I have a ButtKicker when attached to a chair your sitting on while playing transfers some amount of feedback. I guess a tactile transducer mounted to the guitar or on a stand you could lean the guitar against may have the same affect.

Anyone done any experimenting with this?
Had a FeqOut didn't care much for that. Could fry an egg on that damn thing.
 
Put your guitar directly in the speaker of your studio monitoring with 2+ distortion at the same time, and you have feedbacks even at tv volume , I have done that in some recordings 😅
Yup. Me too.

Feedback is all about loop gain and phase angle, just like the LFO in your tube amp with tremolo.

There are tons of ways to get the loop gain high enough. Volume is one, and distortion and/or compression can get you over the hump, too. The Gain Enhancer is on at a low-ish setting in every amp block, usually at 1.0 for clean-ish tones, and at 2.0 for dirty tones. It adds just a little juice and action, and brings the threshold of feedback down into the "getting along with the neighbors" zone....
 
Unfortunately lots of volume isn't an option for me at home,
Volume isn’t the only consideration. Remember, acoustic-coupling is what you need. Volume/air-movement and distance are important components, and if you reduce the volume you can…? Yep, stand closer.

There is still a limitation because the speaker moving the air has to be able to overcome the mass of the strings and shake them. Switching to lighter string gauges can help, as can making sure your pickups are set up close enough to the strings to pick up their movement without the magnetism affecting the string's vibration.

You can also take a different path and route the amp output through a transducer that you attach to the guitar which then shakes the body. The transducer acts like a speaker without the cone. It’s not quite the same sound because the body is trying to shake the strings, not the air, and the body resonances act as a filter.

@Marco Fanton, in his demo of the Red Sound ELIS.8 speakers, hits a note that sustains. The speakers are 8" coaxial, so they're pretty small for FRFR, but larger than a lot of near-field monitors. I suspect he's not running at a crazy volume, instead he's moving air through two speakers and he's relatively close to them, and, it looks like his guitar has relatively light strings on it, maybe .009s. Perhaps he'll chime in on the particulars of that session, and the volume in the room along with his guitar's string gauge.
 
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Is that forum member @dicXjonesify? And what is "this"? :)
Funny story: I use “dickjonesify” on several forums and IG, etc. but I couldn’t use it here because the combination of d, i, c and k are not allowed :D Maybe a mod can change it for me.

I think Bill is referring to this clip of me making fake feedback on my FM9.



It just has an octave and a fifth that kind of swell in at different levels and rates with the envelope follower. Probably not as cool as the Freqout but would totally do the trick live and is all in-the-box.
 
Funny story: I use “dickjonesify” on several forums and IG, etc. but I couldn’t use it here because the combination of d, i, c and k are not allowed :D Maybe a mod can change it for me.

I think Bill is referring to this clip of me making fake feedback on my FM9.



It just has an octave and a fifth that kind of swell in at different levels and rates with the envelope follower. Probably not as cool as the Freqout but would totally do the trick live and is all in-the-box.

Maybe @iaresee can help with the name change. Seems like a legitimate reason.

Your approach of the octave and 5th has been used by others triggered with a button, too. It seems to do the trick.

I recall someone had a trickier version that would alternate between different pitches via the Pitch follower so that above a certain note the feedback would be in a different range.
 
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