My Two cents on the new Song/Setlist function

Charry

Inspired
I Love my fractal products and I was very excited when Fractal announced the new Song/Setlist feature, I come from the 80's and 90's rack era where most pro foot midi controllers had this clever feature, so when this was announced for all the actual Fractal products it felt like home.
After installing the beta firmware and testing this feature on my FM9 I was a little disappointed to be honest, there where a lot of things that I think are not that well implemented or maybe they are just not needed in this device. I know most of them have already been mentioned on the Axe-fx III section, but I guess it won't hurt if I mentioned them again after testing it myself.
I'll try to explain this as best as I can with the way I'm using the FM9 and my regular workflow.

I play in 3 main bands, I do also studio work and sometimes I get some "extra" random gigs. The way I'm using the FM9 is quite simple I think. Each preset is a song, and each song has different sections, normallly between 6 and 8, so the FM9 is perfect for me because I can set 8 different scenes in each preset (song) without audio gaps in between. Everything is pre programmed so I only need to change scenes live. This works perfectly, maybe the only downside I could think of is how to organize presets when setlists are changed and specially when you play in more than one band, plus the studio work and other things. That's why I was so excited when the song/setlist feature was announced. I thought this was gonna be a perfect way to have a setlist for each band and the other stuff. But as I mentioned before I encountered some flaws.

1. Songs can only have 6 parts, most of my songs need 8 parts, so this is a problem for me. A hack could be assigning scenes 7 and 8 to the last two switches to the song layout. So, in this situation I think there is no benefit for me using this layout vs the scene layout really.

2. In my scene layout I like my ring LED's totally off (not dimmed) or on, this helps a lot my switching live. Sadly the Scene layout is the only layout that let's you do this, the song layout doesn't behave this way, so that's another thing that just doesn't work for me.

3. I really thought that when you named a song the title would replace the one on the preset in the FM9 screen, it doesn't, so that's confusing. Yes it does appear for a moment when you press each switch but that just doesn't work live at all in my opinion.

4. The fact that you can't have more than 10 characters is so frustrating for me due to the fact that most of my song names are very long and similar.

All in all I think In my case the song layout doesn't provide everything I need, so I'll just keep on using the scene layout, and that's cool, you don't have to use everything that's implemented on the unit. But what about the setlist function? I do really need that one, the problem is that it only works with the song layout, not the scene layout.
I know most of the things I mentioned about the songs feature has been discussed and it seems it can't be upgraded due to different factors and that's cool. But there should be a way to use the setlist feature without depending on the song layout, I just wanna organize my banks in 4 different setlists as it exists already, but not with the song layout, with the scenes layout.

Sorry for the long post. I really hope this could be implemented, if not, it's alright, the FM9 is still the best amp modeller and FX processor to this date and I couldn't be happier with it.
 
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I Love my fractal products and I was very excited when Fractal announced the new Song/Setlist feature, I come from the 80's and 90's rack era where most pro foot midi controllers had this clever feature, so when this was announced for all the actual Fractal products it felt like home.
After installing the beta firmware and testing this feature on my FM9 I was a little disappointed to be honest, there where a lot of things that I think are not that well implemented or maybe they are just not needed in this device. I know most of them have already been mentioned on the Axe-fx III section, but I guess it won't hurt if I mentioned them again after testing it myself.
I'll try to explain this as best as I can with the way I'm using the FM9 and my regular workflow.

I play in 3 main bands, I do also studio work and sometimes I get some "extra" random gigs. The way I'm using the FM9 is quite simple I think. Each preset is a song, and each song has different sections, normallly between 6 and 8, so the FM9 is perfect for me because I can set 8 different scenes in each preset (song) without audio gaps in between. Everything is pre programmed so I only need to change scenes live. This works perfectly, maybe the only downside I could think of is how to organize presets when setlists are changed and specially when you play in more than one band, plus the studio work and other things. That's why I was so excited when the song/setlist feature was announced. I thought this was gonna be a perfect way to have a setlist for each band and the other stuff. But as I mentioned before I encountered some flaws.

1. Songs can only have 6 parts, most of my songs need 8 parts, so this is a problem for me. A hack could be assigning scenes 7 and 8 to the last two switches to the song layout. So, in this situation I think there is no benefit for me using this layout vs the scene layout really.

2. In my scene layout I like my ring LED's totally off (not dimmed) or on, this helps a lot my switching live. Sadly the Scene layout is the only layout that let's you do this, the song layout doesn't behave this way, so that's another thing that just doesn't work for me.

3. I really thought that when you named a song the title would replace the one on the preset in the FM9 screen, it doesn't, so that's confusing. Yes it does appear for a moment when you press each switch but that just doesn't work live at all in my opinion.

4. The fact that you can't have more than 10 characters is so frustrating for me due to the fact that most of my song names are very long and similar.

All in all I think In my case the song layout doesn't provide everything I need, so I'll just keep on using the scene layout, and that's cool, you don't have to use everything that's implemented on the unit. But what about the setlist function? I do really need that one, the problem is that it only works with the song layout, not the scene layout.
I know most of the things I mentioned about the songs feature has been discussed and it seems it can't be upgraded due to different factors and that's cool. But there should be a way to use the setlist feature without depending on the song layout, I just wanna organize my banks in 4 different setlists as it exists already, but not with the song layout, with the scenes layout.

Sorry for the long post. I really hope this could be implemented, if not, it's alright, the FM9 is still the best amp modeller and FX processor to this date and I couldn't be happier with it.
Thank you. Very helpful. I have the same considerations as you, and was wondering whether to stick with simply using scenes in a song preset.
 
I am in a similar boat! Too many things that it could have but does not to warrant using it at this time!! Hopefully down the road a ways, it will get some updates and I can start using it as I would like!!! I appreciate that they have implemented this feature though, and it has a lot of potential IMO especially with the possible FC12/6 magic it could bring (and yes I know I can already use some of it's features with the FC's)!!!!
 
I am surprised more have not joined in. I think it could be better implemented and add features that most guys would use. I see no real benefit to songs, as I can copy and paste a patch and make it whatever. Name it whatever. Setlists are another matter.
 
I am surprised more have not joined in. I think it could be better implemented and add features that most guys would use. I see no real benefit to songs, as I can copy and paste a patch and make it whatever. Name it whatever. Setlists are another matter.
I think the point of songs is so you can reorder your set without having to move the intro, verse, chorus, bridge, etc, all separately.
 
I think the point of songs is so you can reorder your set without having to move the intro, verse, chorus, bridge, etc, all separately.
I guess I fail to see the point vs copy and quickly alter? Not trying to argue, just not seeing things same way maybe. Now maybe if you are grabbing different scenes from different patches. But other than that....
 
I guess I fail to see the point vs copy and quickly alter? Not trying to argue, just not seeing things same way maybe. Now maybe if you are grabbing different scenes from different patches. But other than that....
With setlists, you don't have to copy anything. You don't have to reserve space to copy stuff into. And you don't have to shuffle things around and reorder them (that can be a chore, even with FM9-Edit). You only need to maintain one copy of each preset. And you always know where that preset is, because it never moves. Plus, you can change your setlist from the front panel with minimum fuss — at rehearsal or at the gig, when there might not be a computer handy.

Added bonus: Let's say the band decides to add a new song. You think, "This song would be a perfect fit for the rhythm and lead tones in my Plexi preset. And the clean chorus scene in my Fender preset would be great for the break." No problem. Just build a song with those scenes from those presets. No need to cobble up your presets.
 
It's not that the song feature doesn't work, it sure could for the people that for example use different presets in the same song, or the people that doesn't need more than 6 sounds for a song, or for the people that doesn't rely on the song names live or other stuff. In my case and because of my workflow it just doesn't, as simple as that. I just wish the setlist could be used with the scenes layout, that's all...
 
I just wish the setlist could be used with the scenes layout, that's all...

There's no reason you couldn't define a layout with a switch to step through the setlist and the remaining switches for scenes. That works fine for what you are suggesting.
 
There's no reason you couldn't define a layout with a switch to step through the setlist and the remaining switches for scenes. That works fine for what you are suggesting.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean, why do I want a shortcut to the setlist if I'm not using the "song layout"? I already explained why the song feature doesn't work for me at this moment and the setlist feature is only available with the song layout...
 
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I think you need to take a closer look at what can be assigned to the switches and how those functions work with the Songs in the setlist.

You can define a Layout with whatever functions you want on the switches.

So, in the setlist function, all I have defined for each song is the name of the song (which is unfortunately limited to 10 characters) and the first "Section" which defines the preset for the song, and the initial scene. I don't define any other "Sections" (sections 2 through 6) for the song.

Then I set the order of my songs for the set.

Next I set up two custom layouts (Layout 7 and 8). In Layout 7, I have a button set choose the Setlist. I have another button configured to increment the song (hold to decrement). I have 4 buttons defined for Scenes 1, 2, 3, 4. I have two buttons defined for Effects (Drive 1 and Filter 1) in case I want to turn those on or off on the fly. The last button is configured to call up the second custom layout, Layout 8.

For Layout 8, I have the buttons that were defined for Scenes 1 to 4 now defined for Scenes 5 to 8. The remaining buttons are defined for three more commonly used effects, one for tap tempo/tuner, and the last one is refined to call Layout 7.

So, on Layout 7 I can select the setlist, scroll through the songs, access Scenes 1-4, turn on/off two effects. The last button on Layout 7 lets me choose Layout 8 which gives me access to Scenes 5-8, three less commonly used effects, tap tempo/tuner, and the last button lets me go back to Layout 7.

Notice that my Layouts are NOT configured to call up sections of the song. They are configured to select Scenes. I guess you could set up a layout with one button to scroll though the songs and 8 buttons for the 8 scenes.

With a little creativity, you can set it up pretty much however you would like. There's a lot of flexibility here.
 
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This feature seems like a looper implementation. No matter what you do; someone will find something wrong with it. FAS doesn't do things with the Staples Easy button in mind either so I don't envy their situation on this particular feature.
 
Very interesting feature! I will have to dig into this when my invite for the FM9 comes. I'm sure it will take plenty of time trying to wrap my mind around how this all works, but it sounds very powerful. I don't fully comprehend all the foot-switching capabilities for the song/setlist function or all the rest at this point, but hopefully I will begin to understand it once I start working with it.
 
I agree about the 10-character limit, but understand why it had to be this way. There are still some bugs in the Setlist feature which I am told will be squashed in the next release, but I have used it for the last two gigs and definitely find it useful.
 
This feature seems like a looper implementation. No matter what you do; someone will find something wrong with it. FAS doesn't do things with the Staples Easy button in mind either so I don't envy their situation on this particular feature.
Exactly...

"F$^%$ bros why didn't u design this feature for my exact use case?!? This is bull! I know if I want things this way everyone else must too!"

I'm not saying people shouldn't provide feedback or start a dialog but there's better ways to do it than raging. I hate to bring up Covey programming, but Habit #5 "seek first to understand then to be understood" goes a long way. The people getting angry need to realize that a lot of limitations are imposed by hardware or initial design choices. Ones where setlists were not a part of the feature set.

Anyway, I ramble.
 
The song / setlist implementation for FAS is pretty good, and it's designed to strike a balance between ease of use and flexibility. I happen to use a MasterMind GT16 controller, and it has huge flexibility for all functions, including a really great song / setlist implementation. However, it's NOT plug and play. You really need to invest a good amount of time to understand how it views / organizes its data. The MMGT controller sends MIDI (although it can also send other information via USB).
To get that kind of power, a user has to put in the time to organize their patch / song functions in a separate system, and then manually keep things in sync. If you move a preset in the AxeFX, the MMGT editor has no way of knowing that, so unless you make the change on both sides, the systems will be out of sync on preset locations.

I like the way FAS approached this, and while it's not as open-ended as the MMGT, you aren't required to manage multiple filing systems for presets and songs.
 
I think you need to take a closer look at what can be assigned to the switches and how those functions work with the Songs in the setlist.

You can define a Layout with whatever functions you want on the switches.

So, in the setlist function, all I have defined for each song is the name of the song (which is unfortunately limited to 10 characters) and the first "Section" which defines the preset for the song, and the initial scene. I don't define any other "Sections" (sections 2 through 6) for the song.

Then I set the order of my songs for the set.

Next I set up two custom layouts (Layout 7 and 8). In Layout 7, I have a button set choose the Setlist. I have another button configured to increment the song (hold to decrement). I have 4 buttons defined for Scenes 1, 2, 3, 4. I have two buttons defined for Effects (Drive 1 and Filter 1) in case I want to turn those on or off on the fly. The last button is configured to call up the second custom layout, Layout 8.

For Layout 8, I have the buttons that were defined for Scenes 1 to 4 now defined for Scenes 5 to 8. The remaining buttons are defined for three more commonly used effects, one for tap tempo/tuner, and the last one is refined to call Layout 7.

So, on Layout 7 I can select the setlist, scroll through the songs, access Scenes 1-4, turn on/off two effects. The last button on Layout 7 lets me choose Layout 8 which gives me access to Scenes 5-8, three less commonly used effects, tap tempo/tuner, and the last button lets me go back to Layout 7.

Notice that my Layouts are NOT configured to call up sections of the song. They are configured to select Scenes. I guess you could set up a layout with one button to scroll though the songs and 8 buttons for the 8 scenes.

With a little creativity, you can set it up pretty much however you would like. There's a lot of flexibility here.
Sure! I know all this. With the way Fractal developed their stuff there are always hacks available and I love that. I could create songs configured exactly the way my presets are configured and just create a layout link inside those songs to reedirect me to my scenes, but that would be quite redundant and let's not talk about the time spent on creating the same 1239 presets into songs just to make them mirror the scene layout which is already made. It's basically doing the same thing twice just to be able to configure the setlists the way I want them. I'm not gonna do that. It would be more efficient just draggin my presets up and down via the editor.

I've always criticized people who complaint about everything, specially in this kind of forums. I would like to think I'm not doing that in this thread, I'm just telling my experience with this feature to see if maybe the guys in Fractal find it useful in any way to make the FM9 even better than what it is now. If not, not a problem at all, I'm happy with it. If this feature works for you, Great! If not, no biggie, try something else or get around it, that's what I'm doing...
 
You know you’re not limited to the default set list / song layout?

You can edit any layout to your liking, customizing it to be a mixture of set list, song, and scene functions as you’d like it. Ethomas have one example of this.

For me, I think of the default layout(s) as just examples to get most people started. You’re not locked in to the default set list layout…
 
You know you’re not limited to the default set list / song layout?

You can edit any layout to your liking, customizing it to be a mixture of set list, song, and scene functions as you’d like it. Ethomas have one example of this.

For me, I think of the default layout(s) as just examples to get most people started. You’re not locked in to the default set list layout…

Yes, I know that, actually all my 9 layouts are totally custom made. I think maybe you didn't understand what I wrote, you didn't read the whole thing or maybe I didn't explained myself very well. it happens...
 
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