My impressions of FX8 - Thinking of sending it back

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usernametaken

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Hello all,

Ok so I have sadly almost made my mind up to send my FX8 back.

Firstly, the good – the unit is built like a tank (really great switches) and many of the FX are stellar. The unit is also very transparent and has great signal integrity. Finally a multi FX that manages to do this. I also managed to figure out how to get a nice modulated reverb sound (thanks to those who helped me with that).

However there are some major issues for me, and a few small ones which stop me from feeling good about keeping it (also factoring in the cost of the unit).

1 – CPU Usage Limits – this is the biggest problem IMHO. It won’t be for everyone. I completely understand that I shouldn’t expect to run many delays and reverbs in a patch without issues. I don’t do this though and I don't think I am being greedy in my needs. I should at the very least be able to run one of any effect in each of the 8 slots without hitting the ceiling. This is meant to replace my pedalboard and having lots of empty slots is frustrating.

My pedalboard needs are pretty simple really. Compressor, two drives, flanger, chorus, pitch shifter, delay and reverb. I can’t run this patch even with reverb density and quality set low. The G3 drives also appear to be CPU hogs and the system keeps locking up and telling me it has disabled the reverb. Sometimes a patch seems fine for a bit then the CPU message comes up and you have to remove a block. Sometimes a patch can be fine then removing a pedal and replacing it with the same effect causes an overload – which makes no sense to me either. It's a nightmare really.

I understand limits in CPU etc – but I don’t think my pedalboard needs are that demanding. I genuinely think this is really a problem this early in the product’s life. If the algos improve at all in the future then this will be more of an issue. The G3 drives combined with one reverb and delay already load the system down hugely – you are asking for problems and probably have to factor in a couple of empty slots.

I know that Fractal has said that it won’t compromise its FX quality. I respect this ethos. But I don’t think that is really addressing why people are upset about this. I think many who are upset about this issue just feel a bit misled about this product. And we are not all users who want to run massive ambient patches – just the basics really. I am holding the product up to high expectations because it is very expensive. It isn’t really a replacement for what I see as a modest pedalboard -which is frustrating.

2 – Switching lag when turning stomps on and off quickly – there are times where the system has to ‘think’ before it disengages or engages an effect (even in pedalboard mode with X/Y turned off). It doesn’t happen always and it is more noticeable for me as I tend to have parts in songs where I switch FX on and off quite quickly. When this happens the lights don’t come on instantly either.

3- Pitch shifter – really disappointed with this - Lots of artifacts and warbling at one octave up – I am sorry to say but my Yamaha Magicstomp has a better pitch shifter. I played with this for hours to get something decent but the tracking was really ragged. Not sure if the Axe is better – perhaps it is the CPU load which is causing this?

4 – Stability – In my first night of editing the screen went blank (still backlit) and the unit locked making a clicking sound until I powered it off. Probably a bug but worrying to find a show stopping one during my first editing session. I also found a few issues where I would switch editing screens but somehow the editing parameters were wrongly named (related to another effect) until I pressed the switch again – hard to explain what I mean without showing you.

5 – Clunky editing with Slow dials (presuming you are away from your PC) – want to turn your mix setting from 20% to 100% - be prepared to turn and turn and turn – its pretty slow and the dials don’t feel that easy to manipulate (I love the soft switches though).

6 – Muff Pi – not great – I have about 4 muffs and it doesn’t come close to any of them in terms of punch and clarity - perhapsneeds to be G3’d? (the G3 Rat sounds great though)

This may sound really negative but I do think that the FX8 has many good qualities. Most of the effects sound amazing. I just want to share my experience for the benefit of everyone. I am pretty sure I will be returning the unit, but I do like a lot about it. I may consider an axe fx now but I really wanted a floor unit to replace my pedalboard. YMMV.

I hope you will not see this as me bashing the product without merit – I am trying to be constructive as I can - and I can see a lot of care has gone into it and I respect the craft and effort. Fractal clearly have a lot of talent and skill.
 
i agree with alot of what you say.
i could also hear tonal issues when switching the true bypass on and off with the fx through the front of my amp.there was also a delay/sound dropped out when you had no fx engaged(true b/p engaged)and you then switched on a block(caused i believe by the relays switching in/out the true b/p).
i also had cpu usage issues when trying to use what to me was a basic 8 block setup.i cured this by disengaging the looper,but what if i had wanted to use the looper?
the fx8 has limitations just like the g sytem i had been using so i sent my fx8 back a little disappointed.
 
Thanks for your constructive post.

I do agree with you that the issues you're seeing are all probably CPU-related. I know, for example, that the FX8 pitch shifter can track as well as that on the Axe-Fx, and that effect switching is normally instantaneous. You can only push the limits of the device so far without a strain. We could have lowered the "CPU ceiling", but there are many cases where you can approach the higher limits and still be fine, so we've left things more open.

I would suggest that you consider using multiple presets and X/Y. I found I could get SEVEN of your EIGHT desired effects with no trouble. The FX8 is designed so you can create 128 different pedalboards... Try presets with combinations of effects you need for a song or set, or, if you really need ALL of that horsepower at once, do what you suggested and check out the Axe-Fx II.

I'd like to recommend that you email me personally through support.fractalaudio.com so I can help you either way.
 
Thanks for the response. I found that I could only get six slots filled with my setup if the drives are both g3 models. Did you use g3 models? Also the reverb is a hall or cathedral. Spring reveb seems to have a lower overhead.

I am not sure that my setup should be pushing the limits of the device. It seems like even if I can fill 7 out of my 8 pedals I will have to accept lagging switches and poor system performance. Not sure that is ideal.

Can the pitch tracking really be down to the CPU? I felt it tracked poorly even when I hadnt added many other Fx.

Someone suggested turning off be looper, does that make a big difference and how do I do it?

How do I email you individually?
 
usernametaken said:
Hello all,

Ok so I have sadly almost made my mind up to send my FX8 back.

Firstly, the good – the unit is built like a tank (really great switches) and many of the FX are stellar. The unit is also very transparent and has great signal integrity. Finally a multi FX that manages to do this. I also managed to figure out how to get a nice modulated reverb sound (thanks to those who helped me with that).

However there are some major issues for me, and a few small ones which stop me from feeling good about keeping it (also factoring in the cost of the unit).

1 – CPU Usage Limits – this is the biggest problem IMHO. It won’t be for everyone. I completely understand that I shouldn’t expect to run many delays and reverbs in a patch without issues. I don’t do this though and I don't think I am being greedy in my needs. I should at the very least be able to run one of any effect in each of the 8 slots without hitting the ceiling. This is meant to replace my pedalboard and having lots of empty slots is frustrating.

My pedalboard needs are pretty simple really. Compressor, two drives, flanger, chorus, pitch shifter, delay and reverb. I can’t run this patch even with reverb density and quality set low. The G3 drives also appear to be CPU hogs and the system keeps locking up and telling me it has disabled the reverb. Sometimes a patch seems fine for a bit then the CPU message comes up and you have to remove a block. Sometimes a patch can be fine then removing a pedal and replacing it with the same effect causes an overload – which makes no sense to me either. It's a nightmare really.

I understand limits in CPU etc – but I don’t think my pedalboard needs are that demanding. I genuinely think this is really a problem this early in the product’s life. If the algos improve at all in the future then this will be more of an issue. The G3 drives combined with one reverb and delay already load the system down hugely – you are asking for problems and probably have to factor in a couple of empty slots.

I know that Fractal has said that it won’t compromise its FX quality. I respect this ethos. But I don’t think that is really addressing why people are upset about this. I think many who are upset about this issue just feel a bit misled about this product. And we are not all users who want to run massive ambient patches – just the basics really. I am holding the product up to high expectations because it is very expensive. It isn’t really a replacement for what I see as a modest pedalboard -which is frustrating.

2 – Switching lag when turning stomps on and off quickly – there are times where the system has to ‘think’ before it disengages or engages an effect (even in pedalboard mode with X/Y turned off). It doesn’t happen always and it is more noticeable for me as I tend to have parts in songs where I switch FX on and off quite quickly. When this happens the lights don’t come on instantly either.

3- Pitch shifter – really disappointed with this - Lots of artifacts and warbling at one octave up – I am sorry to say but my Yamaha Magicstomp has a better pitch shifter. I played with this for hours to get something decent but the tracking was really ragged. Not sure if the Axe is better – perhaps it is the CPU load which is causing this?

4 – Stability – In my first night of editing the screen went blank (still backlit) and the unit locked making a clicking sound until I powered it off. Probably a bug but worrying to find a show stopping one during my first editing session. I also found a few issues where I would switch editing screens but somehow the editing parameters were wrongly named (related to another effect) until I pressed the switch again – hard to explain what I mean without showing you.

5 – Clunky editing with Slow dials (presuming you are away from your PC) – want to turn your mix setting from 20% to 100% - be prepared to turn and turn and turn – its pretty slow and the dials don’t feel that easy to manipulate (I love the soft switches though).

6 – Muff Pi – not great – I have about 4 muffs and it doesn’t come close to any of them in terms of punch and clarity - perhapsneeds to be G3’d? (the G3 Rat sounds great though)

This may sound really negative but I do think that the FX8 has many good qualities. Most of the effects sound amazing. I just want to share my experience for the benefit of everyone. I am pretty sure I will be returning the unit, but I do like a lot about it. I may consider an axe fx now but I really wanted a floor unit to replace my pedalboard. YMMV.

I hope you will not see this as me bashing the product without merit – I am trying to be constructive as I can - and I can see a lot of care has gone into it and I respect the craft and effort. Fractal clearly have a lot of talent and skill.
Click to expand...

Did you try running Reverb in Normal mode in lieu of High Fidelity? There really isn't a lot of difference between the two.
 
usernametaken said:
Hello all,

Ok so I have sadly almost made my mind up to send my FX8 back.

Firstly, the good – the unit is built like a tank (really great switches) and many of the FX are stellar. The unit is also very transparent and has great signal integrity. Finally a multi FX that manages to do this. I also managed to figure out how to get a nice modulated reverb sound (thanks to those who helped me with that).

However there are some major issues for me, and a few small ones which stop me from feeling good about keeping it (also factoring in the cost of the unit).

1 – CPU Usage Limits – this is the biggest problem IMHO. It won’t be for everyone. I completely understand that I shouldn’t expect to run many delays and reverbs in a patch without issues. I don’t do this though and I don't think I am being greedy in my needs. I should at the very least be able to run one of any effect in each of the 8 slots without hitting the ceiling. This is meant to replace my pedalboard and having lots of empty slots is frustrating.

My pedalboard needs are pretty simple really. Compressor, two drives, flanger, chorus, pitch shifter, delay and reverb. I can’t run this patch even with reverb density and quality set low. The G3 drives also appear to be CPU hogs and the system keeps locking up and telling me it has disabled the reverb. Sometimes a patch seems fine for a bit then the CPU message comes up and you have to remove a block. Sometimes a patch can be fine then removing a pedal and replacing it with the same effect causes an overload – which makes no sense to me either. It's a nightmare really.

I understand limits in CPU etc – but I don’t think my pedalboard needs are that demanding. I genuinely think this is really a problem this early in the product’s life. If the algos improve at all in the future then this will be more of an issue. The G3 drives combined with one reverb and delay already load the system down hugely – you are asking for problems and probably have to factor in a couple of empty slots.

I know that Fractal has said that it won’t compromise its FX quality. I respect this ethos. But I don’t think that is really addressing why people are upset about this. I think many who are upset about this issue just feel a bit misled about this product. And we are not all users who want to run massive ambient patches – just the basics really. I am holding the product up to high expectations because it is very expensive. It isn’t really a replacement for what I see as a modest pedalboard -which is frustrating.

2 – Switching lag when turning stomps on and off quickly – there are times where the system has to ‘think’ before it disengages or engages an effect (even in pedalboard mode with X/Y turned off). It doesn’t happen always and it is more noticeable for me as I tend to have parts in songs where I switch FX on and off quite quickly. When this happens the lights don’t come on instantly either.

3- Pitch shifter – really disappointed with this - Lots of artifacts and warbling at one octave up – I am sorry to say but my Yamaha Magicstomp has a better pitch shifter. I played with this for hours to get something decent but the tracking was really ragged. Not sure if the Axe is better – perhaps it is the CPU load which is causing this?

4 – Stability – In my first night of editing the screen went blank (still backlit) and the unit locked making a clicking sound until I powered it off. Probably a bug but worrying to find a show stopping one during my first editing session. I also found a few issues where I would switch editing screens but somehow the editing parameters were wrongly named (related to another effect) until I pressed the switch again – hard to explain what I mean without showing you.

5 – Clunky editing with Slow dials (presuming you are away from your PC) – want to turn your mix setting from 20% to 100% - be prepared to turn and turn and turn – its pretty slow and the dials don’t feel that easy to manipulate (I love the soft switches though).

6 – Muff Pi – not great – I have about 4 muffs and it doesn’t come close to any of them in terms of punch and clarity - perhapsneeds to be G3’d? (the G3 Rat sounds great though)

This may sound really negative but I do think that the FX8 has many good qualities. Most of the effects sound amazing. I just want to share my experience for the benefit of everyone. I am pretty sure I will be returning the unit, but I do like a lot about it. I may consider an axe fx now but I really wanted a floor unit to replace my pedalboard. YMMV.

I hope you will not see this as me bashing the product without merit – I am trying to be constructive as I can - and I can see a lot of care has gone into it and I respect the craft and effort. Fractal clearly have a lot of talent and skill.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the constructive criticism. These are the kinds of posts that advance the unit and keep the whole community informed about workarounds to deal with various weaknesses identified through specific user experience.
 
I, too, became frustrated when I kept hitting cpu limits. I run a non-traditional board with lots of delay and big reverb and was hoping this would simplify things... all the effects I needed in one place within those 8 slots. But having to spread one song throughout multiple presets is time consuming and introduces many points of error in a set. I tried X/Y but there is no spillover between the two so thats a deal breaker. A lush decaying reverb that just abruptly stops when switching is kind of jarring. I sent the FX8 back. Perhaps in the future if the cpu is upped considerably, ill buy again because the unit looks, feels, and sounds amazing!
 
prsaxeman said:
Did you try running Reverb in Normal mode in lieu of High Fidelity? There really isn't a lot of difference between the two.
Click to expand...

The answer is in the original post;

"My pedalboard needs are pretty simple really. Compressor, two drives, flanger, chorus, pitch shifter, delay and reverb. I can’t run this patch even with reverb density and quality set low."
 
DavidE said:
The answer is in the original post;

"My pedalboard needs are pretty simple really. Compressor, two drives, flanger, chorus, pitch shifter, delay and reverb. I can’t run this patch even with reverb density and quality set low."
Click to expand...

Well excuse me!!!
 
prsaxeman said:
Well excuse me!!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you were actually offended or being sarcastic. But remember it's tough to convey inflection via text on a forum. If anything, it seems he was just letting you know - straight forward and with no attitude - that the reason was stated. That's all.

Forum communication takes some time to get used to. Try not to read into things too much, as plain text leaves a lot to the imagination. :)
 
Last edited:
usernametaken said:
Hello all
Click to expand...

Good post. I sincerely hope that some of your issues can be solved.

A few tips:

- Comp: try the different types. The "Pedal" compressors for example have lower CPU requirements that the Studio type.

- Drives: yes, they use a lot of CPU cycles. If you can, use just one block and switch between X/Y to get two different drive types.

- Chorus: detuned pitch shifting may also work for you. In that case: delete the Chorus block and use the Y-state of the Pitch block for a "micro-pitch" chorus sound.

- Laggy pitch shifting: Cliff wrote this about pitch shifting on the Axe-Fx . It may also apply to the FX8. In that case: set Pitch to Local.
"Once the CPU usage crosses a certain threshold (which could happen if you are streaming audio) the pitch detection will slow down as the global pitch detector necessarily has a lower priority than the primary audio processing. If you change the Pitch Source to Local then the local pitch detector runs at the same priority as the audio."
Also, make sure you run the Pitch in the correct mode: Mono (single notes) or Poly (chords).

- Reverb: if a spring reverb type suffices, use that. It uses the very least amount of CPU. There's no difference between its High and Normal Quality. I use the Spring for this reason in my main presets. And it still sounds great.
 
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I agree with #5, the slow editing dials. I do most of my editing from the face of the unit and it's annoying. It would be nice if this could be sped up in a future FW update.

Can't say I have experienced delays switching blocks. But I have noticed a delay/clicking with Auto True Bypass enabled when all of the effects in the preamp loop are turned off and Auto True Bypass kicks in. For now, I have Auto True Bypass disabled.
 
If the PI fuzz is the same algo as the AxeFx, then I agree about that one.

It's my fav real fuzz pedal and I still can't get the Fractal model up to par with my real pedal.

OTOH, the G3 Bender and G3 Tubescreamers are jaw droppingly spot on.
 
Sorry it didn't work out for you. Using X/Y I have been able to run pitch (octave up and down using X/Y), wah, drive (2 using X/Y), phase (2 using X/Y), flange, reverb (medium hall on low), delay (digital and reverse using X/Y) and filter (boost +3 & +5 using X/Y) without a problem. I think I'm using about 87% CPU but would need to check. I have experienced no latency when switching effects on/off manually or multiple effects w/ scenes.

I do think that the FX8 was released a little premature and that some of the beta testers may not have been "pedal dancers" because IMO some basic functionality is missing. For example, being able to configure the the location of the effects on the pedalboard independent of the signal chain. However, I know they are working on this which is awesome. That being said, the more I wrap my head around scenes the need for pedal dancing becomes limited. It really is a much more efficient way to turn on multiple effects at a time and do radical tone changes between songs.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
I'm not sure if you were actually offended or being sarcastic. But remember it's tough to convey inflection via text on a forum. If anything, it seems he was just letting you know - straight forward and with no attitude - that the reason was stated. That's all.

Forum communication takes some time to get used to. Try not to read into things too much, as plain text leaves a lot to the imagination. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you Chris. You are correct.
 
I too have hit CPU limits on some presets I was building and was disappointed. BUT, there is usually a way around it.
 
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