• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

My first FF IRs (EVM12L)

nikki-k

Experienced
I will be trying to refine capturing IRs, but for now, I have created these. I am not sure if I like these or not yet. I do know that I actually like them when doing the "stereo cab, pan both center, stack a NF and FF IR" thing (ala Scott P. :D ). I am not sure which FF I like best, but I found myself playing for almost 30min with one of the FFs plus my EVM12L 3in Edge TC30 IR and.. wait for it.. the Recto Orange. I love my EVM12L cab, and have never owned a Mesa Rec before, but the Axe model is.. mmm!!! :D

Same as before:
Earthworks TC30 mic, Earthworks LAB102 preamp into Axe-Fx II.
Axe-Fx II out to Peavey M2600 power amp into customized Dean Markley 4x12 (only top two 12" loaded; EVM12L 200w).
The TC30 was set a few hairs above the floor for two IRs, and then set ~1m high for the other two IRs. I captured one on-axis (centered, perpendicular to cab), and one @ ~30deg off for each height.

As I stated: I am not sure about these yet. I wish I had Jay's mojo with this stuff. Mine are a bit.. lacking, and in more ways than one (IMO). However, as I said, I did have a blast using them afterwards. Would love some feedback! Not sure if any tips or tricks could be gleened from listening to/using these. We live in a duplex, and it is not a big one at all. Our main room is my home studio, a D&D den, a library, hangout, etc. The room is about 18' x 25', give or take, and 8' high. It is partially treated, and I did manage to get some blankets up to reduce what reflections there are. All the books, stuffed animals, and treatment help quite a bit.

Enjoy!
EVM12L_2m_FO_TC30 (EVM12L, 2meters from cab, Floor On-axis, TC30mic)
EVM12L_2m_F30_TC30 (EVM12L, 2meters from cab, Floor 30deg off-axis, TC30 mic)
EVM12L_2m_1mO_TC30 (EVM12L, 2meters from cab, 1m high On-axis, TC30 mic)
EVM12L_2m_1m30_TC30 (EVM12L, 2meters from cab, 1m high 30deg off-axis, TC30 mic)

For those who missed my previous IR post, I am cutting/pasting below. All of the EVM12L named IRs are of the same cab, and I am using a pretty simple naming scheme.

Finally posting a few.For these, I used an Earthworks TC30, and an Audio Technica AT4047 (no rolloff) with an Earthworks LAB102 mic pre.
For an amplifier, I used an old, reliable Peavey M2600 (clean amp, qualifies for use as part of an FRFR; supposedly -1dB 20-30kHz).
First up, my customized Dean Markley 4x12 cab. It has two EVM12L speakers in the top half, and has some insert baffles. Cool cab, one of my all-time favorites.

I shot this one with the TC30 aimed dead-on Center, on axis, about 2" off the cone; next, same but 6". Next, 3" out, outer Edge, on axis. Finally, swap the TC30 for the AT4047, move it out to about 18" or so, just slightly off center. Yes, the last one is catching both speakers; I did push it away slightly, in an attempt to capture more of one speaker than both, but without the time and energy to get some cans on and place it "just right".. well, it is what it is :D I like it, as it opens up the EV a bit IMO. The 4047 is a really sweet mic, and I chose it over others for its tonality.

Lastly, I shot my Greenback loaded 2x12. One speaker was covered with a blanket (not easy enough to do with the EV loaded cab, unfortunately). I then placed the AT4047 about 18" away, aimed nearly at Center, on axis. I am also uploading a previosuly captured Greenback IR I did when I first got the Axe II. It is not the best, but provides an interesting blending option. This one is an SM57, off axis, edge-facing-in.

The AT4047 captures are more for a blending option. I figured that with the stereo cab option in the Cab Block, it might be cool as a blending IR.
Enjoy!!!

(total attachment pool is limited to 1M, so I am linking externally)
EVM12L 18in AT4047
EVM12L 2in TC30
EVM12L 6in TC30
EVM12L 3in Edge TC30
Greenback 25w 18in AT4047
Greenback 25w 3in Edge, off axis SM57
 

nikki-k

Experienced
I still do not have a favorite from the FF IRs I just captured, and definitely would like to try again once I have time and some ideas of how to improve the process. But, I am sooo in love with my EVM12L 3in Edge TC30 in the first slot of a Stereo Cab Block (pan=0, lev=full up), and one of my FF IRs in the second slot (pan=0, lev=full up)(TY again for this Scott P!). I played around with nearly a dozen amp models and that Cab Block setup, and I cannot wait to play again today!!! I do not like either IR by itself (have not found a single IR that I just "love" though, so not just mine, lol), but together.. they have that "bark" I love.

Now to get some help so I can grab some good FF and NF IRs of my 2x12 Greenback cab!
 

LMO

Fractal Fanatic
Will try these when I get a chance. I'm no expert on this stuff, but you might think about capturing IRs without using the AxeFx feature, in parallel with what you are doing now. It will give you a better feel for the process, you will be able to compare IRs that don't have the AxeFx processing, and you have some flexibility to adjust the sweep data and the deconvolution process.
 

nikki-k

Experienced
Will try these when I get a chance. I'm no expert on this stuff, but you might think about capturing IRs without using the AxeFx feature, in parallel with what you are doing now. It will give you a better feel for the process, you will be able to compare IRs that don't have the AxeFx processing, and you have some flexibility to adjust the sweep data and the deconvolution process.
I am working toward that, but have been opting for the convenience aspect of the Axe (so far). Just capturing the ones I have has been.. difficult (due to me being a paraplegic, extent of injuries, etc). With that in mind, your suggestion actually gains greater relevance, as it would definitely benefit me to opt for what you describe; if I am going to make the effort, might as well squeeze as much as possible from each adventure. Now I need to decide what app to use, and find the *sound(s)* to use for each capture. I need to be careful about upsetting my neighbors, so each "capture session" is being kept purposely short. I miss having my own studio.. :cry
 

LMO

Fractal Fanatic
I've run across some posts on The Gear Page indicating that the AxeFx IR capture is not suitable for making far field IRs. I haven't discovered what specifically needs to be done with a manual capture that the AxeFx doesn't do, but I'll keep looking.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I have a largish treated room but not big enough such that the room boundary reflections are outside of the IR length window.

I haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking of trying an IR capture outside, with the speaker cab on its back pointed up. Just a quick 90db sweep and rush my gear back in the house before the neighbors look out :)

I also found this article and posted it on another thread

ground plane measurements

Richard
 
Last edited:

nikki-k

Experienced
I thought about alternatives to my single available room, but none seem viable to me. Outdoors would be rife with extraneous noise, though the driveway would serve as a solid foundation to place a cabinet... though I would still want to lay a *sheet of plywood* down under it and the mic. Plus the oddness of it and the possible reactions of neighbors; I would rather not deal with Homeland ;) Oh, to go back nine or ten years and have my own studio, or even access to larger studios, for this sort of thing (sigh).

Upon further listening last night, I am finding my IRs to have this... Schenker-ness to them. By that, I mean the "cocked-wah Schenker lead sound" of the 70's/80's, lol. As I played, all I could hear in my head was the Bodokan version of "Attack Of The Mad Axeman," lol.
 

steadystate

Fractal Fanatic
I've run across some posts on The Gear Page indicating that the AxeFx IR capture is not suitable for making far field IRs. I haven't discovered what specifically needs to be done with a manual capture that the AxeFx doesn't do, but I'll keep looking.
"Not suitable" means different things to different people, if you know what I mean.
 

nikki-k

Experienced
As far as the Axe and IR capture, I am wondering if it is the length of the sweep, plus maybe the spacing of the multiple sweeps? And the lack of user editability?

So far, I am seeing that for guitar/bass cabs, a single, sine log sweep (20-20k) is the desired method. If so, how long should the sweep be? Is a pre-recorded (say, 24/44.1k) .wav suitable, or should this be a *triggered* signal generator? Does that matter? Once recorded, should the resulting deconvolved IR be edited? Or should the recorded sweep be edited in any way? If my recording medium (DAWquencer app, for instance) aligns recordings automatically.. IOW, if using a .wav for a sweep, and aligned to the start of a bar, the resulting recording would be time-aligned accordingly to that same bar start... then any resulting "dead air" (time) prior to the sweep being *passed through the mic* would not be desired, correct (the Axe utility *automatically* seems to do this?)? Or yes? "Time," in general, has irked me my entire life... relative bastard that it is...
 

antcarrier

Power User
I haven't tried it yet, but I was thinking of trying an IR capture outside, with the speaker cab on its back pointed up.

Why face up? I believe that to get a reflection free IR, you need to in effect remove walls and ceiling from the recording (hence why the mic should be placed on the floor). If the cab were face up (presuming the mic is suspended in the space above it), this would be no different from placing the cab against a wall indoors.
 

antcarrier

Power User
Upon further listening last night, I am finding my IRs to have this... Schenker-ness to them. By that, I mean the "cocked-wah Schenker lead sound" of the 70's/80's, lol. As I played, all I could hear in my head was the Bodokan version of "Attack Of The Mad Axeman," lol.

I don't blend FF IRs, so when testing these I did find that this cocked-wah sound was always present. I'm guessing that this may be to do with room reflections, but I'm not sure as I've never captured a FF IR myself (I have the space, but not the gear unfortunately). They did capture the essence of the distanced sound however, so I do look forward to more of these if you decide to keep making them :) It will be very interesting to see what you come up with after a bit more experimentation!
 

nikki-k

Experienced
I don't blend FF IRs, so when testing these I did find that this cocked-wah sound was always present. I'm guessing that this may be to do with room reflections, but I'm not sure as I've never captured a FF IR myself (I have the space, but not the gear unfortunately). They did capture the essence of the distanced sound however, so I do look forward to more of these if you decide to keep making them :) It will be very interesting to see what you come up with after a bit more experimentation!
Hmm... and Hmm again...
I am going to be reconfiguring my Greenback and H30 cabs (2x12s) this "weekend" (Tues-Wed is my weekend, effectively), and want to, at the very least, capture the Greenback 2x12 (nice zebra/white tiger print tolex! might take some pics..), and at the very least, use the Axe capture once again (unless I resolve the "sweep length of time" question). I do like the variations between the on-axis, off-axis and on-floor, 1m off-floor IRs..a lot. I am a huge fan of subtleties. The one thing missing from them that Jay has in his is... well, thickness, and I suppose a resultant low/low-mid-ness. This might (simply) require some experimentation.
 

Jens

Power User
The one thing missing from them that Jay has in his is... well, thickness, and I suppose a resultant low/low-mid-ness. This might (simply) require some experimentation.

I was about to comment just that :) They do sound a bid thin or are missing body (very precise descriptions I know...). I guess they still might work if you mix them with another one that'll compensate that.
I don't know anything about why or how, sorry. I find exactly the same problem with the redwire FFs by the way.

I hope you keep at it :)

Jens
 

nikki-k

Experienced
Thank you very much for the feedback!
I am going to keep trying things, and hopefully I will find some recipe that works. I have a few ideas to try, and if things go well, I may be able to try again Tuesday or Wednesday.
 
Top Bottom