My battle with Mr Fletcher-Munson.............

minseito

Member
Does anyone else have this problem???

At general house-acceptable volumes I get great tones from the Axe Fx II when dialling in high gain leads (or other leads) using amps like JVM / 6160 / Friedman, etc and drives such as Super Overdrive / BB, etc. Up loud, on the other hand, most if not all of the warmth disappears leaving me with either ice pick treble or flat mid wood. Obviously I try to tweak it using the amp drive / eq on the drive pedal / GEQ / PEQ etc and that's fine for changing the tone here and there, but I never get the warmth back, no matter how or what I try.

We all have to battle with the Fletcher-Munson effect, and how we all must love that, but I was just wondering if there was some trick I am missing that can help with this. Is it really the case that a unit that cost well upwards of £2000 in the UK doesn't have some kind of feature to combat the deterioration in tone that occurs when going from 5 watts to 50?

Cheers and thanks in anticipation if you have got a comment on this.
 
most will say dial in tones at band volumes... I usually do this at home, I just dial in a sound, crank it, tweak, and then leave it.

Also I do a high cut in the cab block 6-8k depending on the tone.
 
Last edited:
The price of an item has zero effect on the laws of nature. As dpeterson suggested, make your patches (or at least try them out/modify them) at the volume you intend to use them. If you search the forum, you'll find some general eq settings you can try to overcome them, but they won't be perfect.
 
Yes. If you do a search, others have come up with *somewhat acceptable* filter settings (or an EQ block) that they've placed at the end of their chain and bypass or engage (depending on which way you've tweaked it...live or home.)

My personal option is dial 2 sets of presets, Live and Home.
 
You're dialing it in at home volume, then trying to correct for it at gig volume.

Create your preset at gig volume to begin with.
 
There are often two issues when going from home to live volume. One is Fletcher Munson. The other is the rest of the band filling out parts of the spectrum. The only solution I've found is to get it part way right, and then keep adjusting based on what I hear in rehearsal and at gigs.
 
I have found 2 things:

-You need to dial in sounds (through power amp and cab) at the volume you will use live. This may or may not be louder than loud home volume.

-whenever I try to apply convential wisdom like, "leave room for the bass player", and "smooth sounds don't cut live", I end up with sounds that are too thin in band content. Generally, guitar sounds that sound good to me alone, translate very well to a band context.
 
I had pretty much the same issue that at high volumes, it would get muddy/middy and ice picky. I have found ( using a real cab and matrix power amp) that I use the geq page to take out the unwanted frequencies - which for me tend to be the mids. I take a LOT of mids out - so my my EQ looks like a V. This has worked pretty well for me - you can use a PEQ as well - those are harder for me to understand though.. ha ha..
 
To me this is counterdeductive.
At bedroom volume (less "energy") all we tend to exaggerate with bass/mid-bass 'coz we get that "fullness" that our monitor system can manage at low vol. The opposite with the treble: because are more audible we tend to lower the highs at bedroom vol.
So when we are at gig volume the basses are too much (ovarwelming the PA) and the mid/treble are too low and the overall sound is "out of focus" in the mix.
Pumping the mid/mid-high and/or lowering the bass is the key in most cases.
BUT another "focus" prob is if/when the "frequencies battle" is with other mono instruments when you are in stereo!
My solution in this cases is: go mono! "only left out"!
 
I had pretty much the same issue that at high volumes, it would get muddy/middy and ice picky. I have found ( using a real cab and matrix power amp) that I use the geq page to take out the unwanted frequencies - which for me tend to be the mids. I take a LOT of mids out - so my my EQ looks like a V. This has worked pretty well for me - you can use a PEQ as well - those are harder for me to understand though.. ha ha..

But do you still go get the papers, get the papers?
 
I'm not convinced I'll ever get the same "Texture" (the word I like to use) in my tone as I do at optimal/studio volume. The tone/texture seems to clean up a bit at gig volumes and adding additional gain/distortion doesn't give me back that same "texture" I had at lower volumes.
 
Crank your favorite recorded guitar tones and make sure yours sound similar at same volume.

You'd be amazed how many times your tone falls apart at volume compared to the studio tone.
 
I am going to try this for FRFR tweaking at volume. Capturing the band at a gig for playback with my guitar muted, setting up one side of our FOH system at home and tweak each preset at volume to mix with the band capture. I know it's a lot of hassle to go thru so I hope it works great!
 
There are often two issues when going from home to live volume. One is Fletcher Munson. The other is the rest of the band filling out parts of the spectrum. The only solution I've found is to get it part way right, and then keep adjusting based on what I hear in rehearsal and at gigs.

Yup. Also, record everything if you're able. Your auditory perceptions are warped not only by volume, but by the fact that your attention is divided while playing. The recorder gives you an accurate rendition and helps to determine which adjustments to try at the next session.
 
Warrior says much more accurately and succinctly what I was trying to say - it is certainly the 'texture' - good word - that I meant. It is precisely that 'cleaning up' at volume that I don't like. It takes all the warmth out of the sound.

I will certainly check out all the suggestions on here - for which thank you all very much. Appreciated.
 
G'day
Wasn't is suggested that the new Motor Control options could help with this exact thing?
Thanks
Pauly
 
I have the exact opposite problem. I can dial it in with louder volumes but can't make my quieter patches sound good.
Try cutting mids at lower volume.

I also find that less drive is needed at high volumes, so you might also increase your amp gain a bit.
 
Back
Top Bottom