My 2 Cents: Why Some People think Axe-Fx Doesn't Sound Great

I don't know what it is but for our last rehearsal I didn't plug into my CLR or into the mix pult, which I've done for years. I decided to plug into a Marshall 2000, clean channel, FM3 as it is, presets with different amp and cabs. I forgot even to turn of the simulation.

I was very happy after a long long time with my sound, it was just another level. To be honest, I've changed the pickups and the strings too. But I'm sure that the playing through a real amp and cab had the biggest impact. For playing live in room with a band, nothing beats a real amp and a guitar cab. For recording, digital modeling has many advantages, that's also true. My 1,5 cents.
 
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I did not say i'm not happy with my tone. I said i do not have the full chain to my wishes yet. The first one would be a real room treatment.

I should have said frfr at home, as with this setup i have not played live.

Anyways, it was my intention to help others that struggle with sound as i learned a lot. With both axe fx 2 and axe fx3 i was able to get great sounds.

But now i easily get close to so many sounds without extensive tweaking. Is it 100%, nope not yet mainly because of external things, and not related to axe fx
Have you tried the Far Field cab packs? Aren't they meant to help add the vibe of an amp in the room? I have the FM3 for now, so I haven't been able to try them.
 
Actually I understand perfectly well why my Ax FX doesn't sound like the videos:

1) it's all half the fault of my shitty ability to record any piece of music
2) it's all half the fault of my shitty guitar playing

That's all, your honor.
 
Another problem is never fully understanding the gear you have and how to make it work for any particular need.

AXE II, AX8, FM3, AXE III, FM9...Maybe the next version will be the answer. :) Or buying all the FRFRs on the market because the next one will be the sound, even though the previous FRFR was only used one or two times at low volumes. Never giving sufficient time with both products. Same thing with FW versions.

I've had 4 of the 5 Fractal products above and still gig (more of this than home recording) with my AX8 because I'm comfortable with it and know what it can do. It is dialed in for my FRFRs of choice or a backline cab.

I've got tools to get the sound I want. All is good.
 
One thing I've always found funny is that you see endless threads about how modelers sound "like shit" compared to an amp in the room but you rarely if ever see someone saying the opposite, that they love modelers because they sound like a recorded guitar tone and NOT an amp in the room.
 
One thing I've always found funny is that you see endless threads about how modelers sound "like shit" compared to an amp in the room but you rarely if ever see someone saying the opposite, that they love modelers because they sound like a recorded guitar tone and NOT an amp in the room.
well ... I've said it a few times as I tend to prefer mic'd cab tones via frfr generally and still struggle to get sounds I like as much out of my tube amps / real cabs or ss amps + real cabs. I've definitely made progress by learning to appreciate aitr more, instead of the futile unconcious effort I engaged in for a long time which was trying force (via eq) my real cabs to sound more
like mic'd cabs. I'm probably this way due to starting my guitar journey with modellers and plugins via frfr and not being a gigging musician + getting my feet wet with real tube amps / cabs later on.
 
I bought my Axe-Fx II about a year before the III came out, and flipped it after about 3 months. I had the Axe and a powered Atomic monitor, and thought I was set. Nope. I was expecting AITR from FRFR. With the III, I go into a solid state power amp, into a traditional guitar cab. I know I lose some of the flexibility, but for live playing, that's what works for me. I could totally see FRFR/direct for recording, maybe FOH eventually.

I think in most cases the modeling is there, it's us players who aren't quite there. Some of us have spent decades dialing in pedals and amps using a live cabinet as our reference. Even when the controls look the same, they're still a paradigm shift involved with modeling and FRFR. None of these things are one size fits all, but in my experience, the problem very often is not the gear.
 
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My tips for a good live sound would be:
- A preset you have after two hours of loud playing can´t sound good the other day with fresh ears. Exceptions prove the rule.
Otherwise it´s very important to tweak sound at the same level you play live. This is a little difficult ...
  • Don´t use to much sounds live. If you have 5 sounds ore less, there is a chance to tweak sounds at a gig. You can´t tweak 20 Sounds.
  • The biggest mistake in my opinion: Too much different IR´s. The sound mixer will hate you. Use Low- and Hicut!
  • Many guitarists use way too much delay and reverb live.
  • Its often not a good idea to play stereo.
 
Have you tried the Far Field cab packs? Aren't they meant to help add the vibe of an amp in the room? I have the FM3 for now, so I haven't been able to try them.
Nope. As i mentioned before i have no problems with the sound the axe fx 3 gives me. I find it very easy to find a great marshall tone. The jcm800 models are real easy to get a good marshall tone and sound. And im not looking for amp in the room sound.

From 19.7 it is real easy to get great tone from factory presets and i barely use tweaking amp or cabstuff.

I tried to have people not all the time saying its due to axe fx. As its not. I tried to explain why its so difficult to get the tone you want. As with modelling and things that most guitarist do not know or needed as the full chain is now more than the sum of guitar-fx-amp-fx-cab. And even then I understimated fletcher munsson and what i like to hear myself compared to what sounds best in bandcontext/mix.
 
who is dis Jay man you speak ov? a well respected professional it seems? - I must check out some of his content and teachings 😀
 
One thing I've always found funny is that you see endless threads about how modelers sound "like shit" compared to an amp in the room but you rarely if ever see someone saying the opposite, that they love modelers because they sound like a recorded guitar tone and NOT an amp in the room.
I am definitely in this camp. Most amp in the room sounds I've heard are to me sonically garbage. Yeah they are fun to play with because of all the power and volume, but the speakers are highly directional so there's a small sweet spot where it might sound decent. Most live acts I see tend to use mic'd cabs on stage through the PA anyway, apart from maybe some small clubs or bars. In those cases modellers through a PA or FRFR tend to sound better to me as well. I don't really see what the obsession some people have with getting an amp in the room tone is. If you like that sound, get an amp, put it in a room, and there you go :)
 
My tips for a good live sound would be:
- A preset you have after two hours of loud playing can´t sound good the other day with fresh ears. Exceptions prove the rule.
Otherwise it´s very important to tweak sound at the same level you play live. This is a little difficult ...
  • Don´t use to much sounds live. If you have 5 sounds ore less, there is a chance to tweak sounds at a gig. You can´t tweak 20 Sounds.
  • The biggest mistake in my opinion: Too much different IR´s. The sound mixer will hate you. Use Low- and Hicut!
  • Many guitarists use way too much delay and reverb live.
  • Its often not a good idea to play stereo.
Agree..
I use several presets for Home-use or Recording but at Rehearsal I mainly use 1 Preset with 3-5 sounds and on every Scene or on my main presets I use the same IRs on CAB block. Reverb only on Clean sound and Lead.
 
I am definitely in this camp. Most amp in the room sounds I've heard are to me sonically garbage. Yeah they are fun to play with because of all the power and volume, but the speakers are highly directional so there's a small sweet spot where it might sound decent. Most live acts I see tend to use mic'd cabs on stage through the PA anyway, apart from maybe some small clubs or bars. In those cases modellers through a PA or FRFR tend to sound better to me as well. I don't really see what the obsession some people have with getting an amp in the room tone is. If you like that sound, get an amp, put it in a room, and there you go :)
Thats exactly why I do not understand the insist of AITR - On most gigs I had, the sound tech always wanted to have the Cabs miked and I have to convince them that there's no need because of using miked-cab simulation already. And I've done stage-hands and sound tech assistance on our small festival in our region for 6 years and every amp/cab was miked so there was no AITR sound on FOH or monitors but most guitarists always are the opinion that this is what they need ?!
I also have used 4x12 cab for bigger rooms or stages when appropriate distance to the cab was possible because of focusing of sound beam. On small stages or clubs I used 2x12 cabs or 1x12 cabs because they are not as focused to a dedicated spot like a 4x12.
Actually I have no 4x12 anymore and only using 2 selfmade widerange cabs 1x12 with port and class D power amp and active FRFRs.
 
I don’t have a definitive response, but instead a personal observation.

1. When I use a simple version of a specific-amp factory preset, turn off all of the effects, route the output to a wonderful QSC SS amp and into the speaker enclosure of the real amp…it sounds just like the real amp (to my ears). I do the A/B comparison with the real amp, and it’s identical. Of course, I don’t have every amp in the Fractal lol, but I have Fenders, Marshall’s, Dr Z’s, etc. And it’s the same, when using my ears.

2. When I use all the right stuff, and try to match a guitar from a classic recording (pick one, any one that I can play), then it takes a shitload more effort, because I don’t have the (for example) Tom Dowd there applying his piece of the magic of compression, EQ, tape distortion, blah blah.

(Come to think of it, maybe a PRODUCER Block would be awesome, just before the OUT Block, lol)
 
I bought my Axe-Fx II about a year before the III came out, and flipped it after about 3 months. I had the Axe and a powered Atomic monitor, and thought I was set. Nope. I was expecting AITR from FRFR. With the III, I go into a solid state power amp, into a traditional guitar cab. I know I lose some of the flexibility, but for live playing, that's what works for me. I could totally see FRFR/direct for recording, maybe FOH eventually.

I think in most cases the modeling is there, it's us players who aren't quite there. Some of us have spent decades dialing in pedals and amps using a live cabinet as our reference. Even when the controls look the same, they're still a paradigm shift involved with modeling and FRFR. None of these things are one size fits all, but in my experience, the problem very often is not the gear.
I on the other hand used the Axe-Fx II + Atomic FR setup for years and loved it. Should have kept the FR in hindsight as it turned out to be a bit of an unique product on the market.

I've since then tried the poweramp and guitar cab thing and ended up full circle just running my Axe-Fx 3 into studio monitors. For me the real cab thing works best when your setup is already limited, namely using a real amp that is good for sounds X and Y. For something as unlimited as the Axe-Fx 3, FRFR is less compromises for me as you can match the "perfect" cab sim with each amp.

After making IRs of my real cabs using a reference mic I found that IRs can sound very similar to how I hear those cabs in the room so for me FRFR vs real cab is not much of an issue. I also learned that more "characterful" mics like SM57s and whatnot are actually superior to the almost flat frequency response reference mic because they give more distinct character for different close mic positions so it's much easier to blend brighter and darker mics or two different positions together for the right recorded sound.

I think people used to real guitar cabs are put off that FRFR setups tend to be massively less directional and much brighter so the nasty bits (fizz etc) stand out easier. Some tweeters can also be harsh and even with the Atomic FR I got my preferred results by setting the tweeter volume quite low, just to bring in some bite.
 
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