MV Poll

Do want an authentic or idealized MV control?

  • Authentic

    Votes: 76 33.6%
  • Idealized

    Votes: 105 46.5%
  • Doesn't Matter

    Votes: 45 19.9%

  • Total voters
    226

AndrewJay

Inspired
I figured I'd make a separate post for this. Let's get a consensus and voice some opinions. I would adjust to whichever is chosen. Sometimes I lean more authentic, other times idealized. Either way, I know some amazing tones will be had in both.
 
I've already made up my mind. If an amp has an MV taper of greater than 15A the model's taper will be 15A otherwise it will match the amp.

I.e., a Blues Jr. has an MV taper that is linear (which is ridiculous). The model's taper will therefore be 15A.

There are a handful of exceptions, i.e. Camerons have linear taper MV and you need it with them because the signal level into the power amp is very low due to the Jose topology.

I've gone back and forth between 10A and 15A though. Still debating.
 
I've already made up my mind. If an amp has an MV taper of greater than 15A the model's taper will be 15A otherwise it will match the amp.

I.e., a Blues Jr. has an MV taper that is linear (which is ridiculous). The model's taper will therefore be 15A.

There are a handful of exceptions, i.e. Camerons have linear taper MV and you need it with them because the signal level into the power amp is very low due to the Jose topology.

I've gone back and forth between 10A and 15A though. Still debating.
Thank you for the information. It is certainly an exciting time to be a Fractal owner.
 
Personally, I don't think a poll matters. Opinions have already been stated, and FAS decides, regardless of the poll.
I agree. I recognize that FAS decides regardless of any poll. And I certainly think that is the way it should be. I figured I'd make a poll just to have MV opinions in one place. If this thread is superfluous then I suppose it should be taken down? Not suggesting anything, as I am not a mod, just like to contribute to discussion.
 
I agree. I recognize that FAS decides regardless of any poll. And I certainly think that is the way it should be. I figured I'd make a poll just to have MV opinions in one place. If this thread is superfluous then I suppose it should be taken down? Not suggesting anything, as I am not a mod, just like to contribute to discussion.
Its an interesting discussion for sure and there seems to be equal votes on both sides sounds like Cliff is doing a little bit of both
so i wonder would most modern hingain be linear like SLO , Recto
TC100 , Bogner
 
I've already made up my mind. If an amp has an MV taper of greater than 15A the model's taper will be 15A otherwise it will match the amp.

I.e., a Blues Jr. has an MV taper that is linear (which is ridiculous). The model's taper will therefore be 15A.

There are a handful of exceptions, i.e. Camerons have linear taper MV and you need it with them because the signal level into the power amp is very low due to the Jose topology.

I've gone back and forth between 10A and 15A though. Still debating.
I know it's your decision and I totally respect your choices... But, from a support perspective I think this is even more confusing than what we've had until now.

This MV issue comes up a LOT here on the forum (and Facebook). You can tell people all day long to use "ears not eyes" but they still do use eyes.

It's at least somewhat simple to explain the "rule" because all models currently follow it.

Since your ethos seems to be "warts and all" it seems odd to deviate here in an "inconsistent" way. I mean, you did describe a new "rule" in your post but knowing the exception cases will be challenging.

I think MV for all amps should be either "ideal" or "authentic".

I debated with myself about posting this. I'm going to do it anyway because I know you at least listen to input :)

Feel free to tell me to shut up... Or go stand in the corner with a funny chucklehead hat on! (Or both ;))
 
I like Cliff's approach of using an authentic taper where it makes sense, and an idealized taper in cases where the real amp's taper is hard to work with. I may be an outlier here, but of all the real amps I've played through, only one or two of them are modeled in the Axe-Fx. (And one of those doesn't even have a MV in real life.) Also, I don't adjust any amp settings based on what I've read or seen in videos. So if the MV taper on the Sealclubber 5000+ model doesn't match the real amp, I would neither know nor care. I'm just going to adjust it until I get the sound I want, and if I can't get a workable sound within a few minutes, I'll move on to a different amp model or IR.
 
I like the idea of authentic although it really doesn’t matter much to me. I tend to gravitate toward amps with no MV or that sound good with it dimed.

My main concern with the transition is people’s existing patches. If it automatically converts 15.01 patches to the equivalent value, that would prevent the majority of issues with the switch.
 
I like Cliff's approach of using an authentic taper where it makes sense, and an idealized taper in cases where the real amp's taper is hard to work with. I may be an outlier here, but of all the real amps I've played through, only one or two of them are modeled in the Axe-Fx. (And one of those doesn't even have a MV in real life.) Also, I don't adjust any amp settings based on what I've read or seen in videos. So if the MV taper on the Sealclubber 5000+ model doesn't match the real amp, I would neither know nor care. I'm just going to adjust it until I get the sound I want, and if I can't get a workable sound within a few minutes, I'll move on to a different amp model or IR.
This also brings the point that we are at a point in technology where there are people here who have never EVEN PLAYED A REAL TUBE AMP!!

Yes, it sounds incredulous, but players today are playing through Kempers, Helixes and Axe Fxs

Can you imagine the amount of 'possible bug!' threads and support cases when these players realize that the controls don't make sense?

Look at the current beta thread - people who HAVE played these amps are asking why the presence knob doesn't do anything past 1, or why there are ghost notes.....the real amp has it, sure, but these are seen by almost ALL as undesirable, even players who have used the real thing. Can you imagine how jarring and silly it would seem to someone who never played a tube amp before, upgrades to an axe fx from their toaster, and has to struggle with trying to increment a dial from 0.9 to 1.1 without waking up the neighborhood? They would likely pick back up their toaster and dial in a knob that made sense. It's not authentic, but who wants to deal with twiddly fiddly fickle knobs when all the other devices offer easier to dial in, non-authentic tones?

The poll reflects this too - only 20% here care to have 'the good old knob', even if it's a pain to dial in, and 80% prefer (or don't care) ideal, easier to dial in controls that make sense

Thank God for Cliff, who found a way to give us BOTH! 🙏
 
This also brings the point that we are at a point in technology where there are people here who have never EVEN PLAYED A REAL TUBE AMP!!

Yes, it sounds incredulous, but players today are playing through Kempers, Helixes and Axe Fxs

Can you imagine the amount of 'possible bug!' threads and support cases when these players realize that the controls don't make sense?

Look at the current beta thread - people who HAVE played these amps are asking why the presence knob doesn't do anything past 1, or why there are ghost notes.....the real amp has it, sure, but these are seen by almost ALL as undesirable, even players who have used the real thing. Can you imagine how jarring and silly it would seem to someone who never played a tube amp before, upgrades to an axe fx from their toaster, and has to struggle with trying to increment a dial from 0.9 to 1.1 without waking up the neighborhood? They would likely pick back up their toaster and dial in a knob that made sense. It's not authentic, but who wants to deal with twiddly fiddly fickle knobs when all the other devices offer easier to dial in, non-authentic tones?

The poll reflects this too - only 20% here care to have 'the good old knob', even if it's a pain to dial in, and 80% prefer (or don't care) ideal, easier to dial in controls that make sense

Thank God for Cliff, who found a way to give us BOTH! 🙏
Oddly enough, all those people that have never played the real amps manage to grasp the authentic knobs for every other control that's carried over from the amps.
 
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