Muse - Arpeggiator effects

adew

adew

Inspired
Muse - Map of the Problematique (thread renamed)

I'm on a Muse kick at the moment and was wondering how (if it's even possible) to create effects similar to the main guitar part in Map of the Problematique? Any pointers? Any presets? I did search, but most Muse tone-seekers seem to have been Ultra users, lol, so not much in the way of recent presents, or discussion out there (from what I can see).

Also, is it possible to create a passable imitation of the chorus keyboard arpeggios in Stockholm Syndrome? Any thoughts?

Thanks!


Note: I've changed the thread title to better reflect the topic and to be more useful for future searches.
 
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yes. both possible. don't have time right now to make you patches, sorry. maybe tomorrow. hopefully someone else will chip in until then. the first sound can use the sequencer tied to a filter (or maybe the ring mod set to track?...not sure yet) and the second one can use the synth + the arpeggiator.
 
Once there was a AXE-Fx Ultra preset for Promlematique. A few month ago I remembered that and transferred the old syx to the AxeFx II format.

It sounds not 100% the same as on the ULTRA in early days but I think it come quite near to the original Muse tone. Maybe some more tweaks are necessary. I suppose at least you have to set the GATE to a specific level, so that you can't hear the sequencer and controllers in the background anymore.

Have fun:
 

Attachments

  • MUSE Promlematique ULTRA.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 114
Liquid22 said:
Once there was a AXE-Fx Ultra preset for Promlematique. A few month ago I remembered that and transferred the old syx to the AxeFx II format.

It sounds not 100% the same as on the ULTRA in early days but I think it come quite near to the original Muse tone. Maybe some more tweaks are necessary. I suppose at least you have to set the GATE to a specific level, so that you can't hear the sequencer and controllers in the background anymore.

Have fun:
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'll check it out.
 
Liquid22 said:
Once there was a AXE-Fx Ultra preset for Promlematique. A few month ago I remembered that and transferred the old syx to the AxeFx II format.

It sounds not 100% the same as on the ULTRA in early days but I think it come quite near to the original Muse tone. Maybe some more tweaks are necessary. I suppose at least you have to set the GATE to a specific level, so that you can't hear the sequencer and controllers in the background anymore.

Have fun:
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. I gave it a whirl this evening but I don't think the arpeggiator pattern is correct. I played around with it but couldn't quite achieve that sound. Oh well... I'll try again with a fresh brain tomorrow. :)
 
adew said:
I gave it a whirl this evening but I don't think the arpeggiator pattern is correct.
Click to expand...

I think that's right. That's what I meant with tweaks are needed. Although I tried to adapt the ULTRA.syx as good as possible 1:1, something sounds different. But I haven't got the time since then to look into it.

I'll gonna use again Axe Edit-0.9 (offline mode possible) with the ULTRA 329 - Problematique MUSE.syx file and compare it again with the AxeFxII-file on the newest AxeEdit. At the moment I'm kind of busy so I don't know when I can check that. Maybe you find the time fort hat first.
 
Thanks for coming back on this.

I found some info online that suggests that the argeggiator steps should be as follows:

step 1 = -12 (ie one octave down)
step 2 = 0
step 3 = +12 (ie one octave up)
step 4 = 0
step 5 = +12
step 6 = 0
step 7 = -12
step 8 = 0
step 9 = +12
step 10 = 0
step 11 = +12
step 12 = 0
step 13 = -12
step 14 = 0
step 15 = +12
step 16 = 0

So, I programmed these steps in but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement. The pulsating effect is just about there, I think, but there's a portamento effect which needs to dialled out, to prevent the note slides being audible. Still not 100% sure about this arpeggiator pattern, although I've seen this same pattern mentioned in two online sources for programming a Whammy pedal. Anyway, I'll have another go tonight and I'll post whatever I manage to come up with.


UPDATE:

Thinking about it, perhaps I should try using the Pitchshifter block in Advanced Whammy mode rather than Arpeggiator, and then attach the Whammy pitch ctrl to the "sequencer" internal controller. No idea if that will work or be better, but I'll give it a go when I'm back in the studio this evening.
 
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Update re my attempts to recreate the Map of the Problematique sound...

For the "Ultra" patch posted by Liquid22, I changed the arpeggiator steps as per the 16 step pitch map listed in my above post, and also switched the scale to "chromatic" and key to "C". To my ears, this sounds much better, but doesn't get all the way there.

So, based on my earlier ruminations mentioned in a previous post in this thread, I've created a new version of the patch using the Advanced Whammy mode in the Pitchshifter, and then attached the Sequencer controller to the pitch control modifier. This sounds pretty good when playing power chords on the A string, but sounds crap when playing the opening riff on the 6th string (tuned down to C).

I attach both patches and hope that someone can help me out as I'm sure I'm missing a trick somewhere, but can't see where. (Alternatively, it may be the case that this effect cannot be recreated with the AF2...)

View attachment MUSE Problematique Ade ULTRA.syx
View attachment MUSE Problematique Ade SEQ.syx
 
Good job adew. I think with the sequencer is kind of a key for getting closer to the original. But, just like you, I think it's still not 100% the same. Seams to me it has something to do with the rhythm of the sequence. I wish I would have the time to look into the hole thing and maybe find a solution. Would be great if anyone else has an idea. So guys, feel free .... :encouragement:
 
Thanks!

Actually, if you're playing along to the original track, the tempo isn't correct in either of those patches - it should be 125 bpm, I believe. As for the sequencer pattern, everything I've found online so far has suggested that the pattern I've used is correct - it just doesn't sound quite right though. I wondered about layering in a tremolo also controlled by a sequencer or LFO to at least add some more meat to the sound, and I'll try that once I get a moment. (Also, trying the new FW 16.04 Dizzy model could be interesting, too.)

In the meantime, I'm hoping Simeon will post back with some ideas. :) :encouragement:
 
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adew said:
Thanks!

Actually, if you're playing along to the original track, the tempo isn't correct in either of those patches - it should be 125 bpm, I believe. As for the sequencer pattern, everything I've found online so far has suggested that the pattern I've used is correct - it just doesn't sound quite right though. I wondered about layering in a tremolo also controlled by a sequencer or LFO to at least add some more meat to the sound, and I'll try that once I get a moment. (Also, trying the new FW 16.04 Dizzy model could be interesting, too.)

In the meantime, I'm hoping Simeon will post back with some ideas. :) :encouragement:
Click to expand...

A lot of the song has the first 6 steps of that pattern repeating, without resetting on beat 1 (or other points in the measure, which happens later). That might be what you're noticing. The easiest way to do it manually on one preset would be with a 6-step sequence and a switch to quickly reset (stop/start) it at specific points, like beat 1 in bars 2/3/4. After that the next reset would be at :38 on beat 1, then again on the next 1, 2 bars later on beat 4, etc.
 
here's my take on problematique. i can't hear what's going on in the other tune well enough. i'm afraid

the sequencer starts it pattern when you play the first chord
 

Attachments

  • Map of the Problematique.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 121
Yes. I think that's it. Thanks simeon. The trick with the envelope controler on the run-switch of the sequencer was very important. With 125 bpm it fits now to the intro.
For the rest of the song I have to read bakermans post another 10 times and listen to the song again.
 
the forum post i got the pattern from also stated that the pattern changed on the fourth bar. i didn't notice it, but the poster listed the intervals. we can only get two bars out of the sequencer using 16ths, so you may just have to accept that's as good as it's going to get. i challenge anyone to play this live and have someone come up afterwards and say "hey man, that sequencer pattern wasn't right". nobody will notice.
 
Thanks, Simeon! I'll try your patch later today.

Thanks also to Bakerman for your comments.

Re Stockholm Syndrome - the arpeggio is too long and complex, I agree. If I ever do this live I'll use a backing track and click. :encouragement:
 
simeon said:
the forum post i got the pattern from also stated that the pattern changed on the fourth bar. i didn't notice it, but the poster listed the intervals. we can only get two bars out of the sequencer using 16ths, so you may just have to accept that's as good as it's going to get. i challenge anyone to play this live and have someone come up afterwards and say "hey man, that sequencer pattern wasn't right". nobody will notice.
Click to expand...

Thanks again, Simeon.

The sequencer pattern is the same as in my patch and what I've seen all over the net. I agree - it's good enough for all but the most extreme Matt Bellamy purists. :) I think the secret sauce in your version is attaching the Envelope controller to the sequencer "run" parameter, which makes the whole thing more controllable and predictable when playing through it. Also, the second amp in parallel really fills out the sound. The new Dizzy Silver model sounds great!

Thanks again for this - much appreciated! :encouragement:
 
Raca said:
Here's a newer version for firmware 16.04:
View attachment 23772

Set Amp level to your taste.
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Thanks, Antoine. That sounds really good. Slightly different to mine and Simeon's, but works really well against a backing track (for example, if tempo changed to 125 bpm). Interesting to see the slightly different approaches taken by people to get this sound. All good stuff!
 
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