Moving to IEM - what gear and what to know?

adew

adew

Inspired
I didn't want to hijack the Alien Ears thread so thought I'd start a new one...

My four piece band (drums, guitar, bass, vocals) is considering going the IEM route, the main reason being that we want a quieter stage. Additionally, the drummer is going to play to a click and, now that I'm an Axe user, our whole approach to backline has changed.

So, the question is this: what gear do we need? I'm really clueless about IEM solutions, so am a little lost, but here are our requirements:

1. Wireless for three of us (drummer can be wired)
2. Ability to have individual mixes. However, it's likely that we'll generally only get a 2 channel feed from FOH, so not sure how to deal with "more/less me"
3. Shouldn't cost the earth, but we're prepared to spend if necessary.

Any suggestions as to what to look at and where to start, or perhaps links to some online resources to help in the decision making, is much appreciated!

Thanks!
 
One word - Stereo. So maybe a little more than that but Mono vs. Stereo is huge for in ears. Get a good system, good double/triple driver headphones, a split snake and a monitor mixer that has at least 6 aux sends for you. 2 for each person L + R. That way everybody gets their own stereo mix that they adjust. If you really want to be consistent lugging your own mics is great too but not necessary.
 
I play in a band with the same line up. We all use iem (3 rf & 1 wired) going thru an A&H mix wiz mon console. 16 ch with 6 stereo or 12 mono mixes. We really like the ability to have our own mixes. Stereo is the way to go IMHO.
 
Some good recommendations.
You definitely want the ability to pan each voice and instrument. Pan them dead center and you have MUD. And consider each mike point of the drum kit as its own unique instrument.
Be prepared - a good wireless for your IEMs is going to run 800-1200 each. I use the Shure 900.
For individual mixes, I use Aviom. Again pricy. Though I am not a Behringer fan, I have heard their equivalent system is good and holding up.
As far as the IEMs theirselves, spend as much as you can.
 
My advise is dont spare any expense. Skimping out on any portion of the setup with lead to crappy sound and in the end someone will be unhappy and ruin it for everyone.
Stereo, (I use the sennheiser ew300 g3). It's a great unit but I feel some others may be better.
Excellent CUSTOM MOLDED ear buds. I went all out and got JH audio 16's. I recommend saving up and making the best purchase first. Otherwise you'll end up doing what I did and upgrade 3 times and just waste money. Remember, you can't sell your used ones to anyone when you decide to upgrade. They are molded for only your ear. So do yourself a favor and just buy the best ones right off the bat and don't leave yourself wondering if the sound would be better.

Individual mixes is definitely key.

Minimize stage volume as much as you can to reduce any bleed through in the mics

Overall compression and carefully placed reverb for the mix is a great idea.

I EQ every channel like I would a recorded mix. Pull lows and highs in the right areas. Makes a nice clean mix

I'd stay away from any ported or vented ear mold. Causes you to lose your overall low end.

Ambient mics are a good idea if you have enough channels and are thrown off by any isolation.

Finally,...make sure everyone has their presets leveled so you don't have to run back and forth to the In ear board all night turning your keyboard player up...then down...then up....then down...then up....you get the idea. Drives me nuts. Eventually I just turn it down and leave it down. Lol

That's all I can think of for now.
 
I would try wired first if you can.

IMO, wired sounds better overall and if you decide it's not for you, then you are not out the wireless gear $$.
 
Thanks everyone for the great feedback and advice!

Stereo vs Mono - absolutely, I can't imagine trying this in mono.

Wired vs Wireless - if we're going to do it, it will be wireless. Both me and the bassist use wireless for our guitars, and our singer moves around on stage like a demented ferret (mind you, never tell her I said that), so wired isn't an option for us (apart from the drummer). However, those that mentioned it are quite correct, a quick google shows that there is a significant price jump to go wireless...

Points noted re the quality of the ear buds. I suspect that one can almost never spend too much money on this (within reason, of course). Good point about ambient mics, I hadn't considered that this could be an issue, though thinking about it for more than a few minutes it is obvious that this could be important.

We may be able to get away with 3 personal mixes, rather than 4, but any suggestions for a suitable mixer? I would have thought that there may be some good mid-price options here.

Also (and this really shows my ignorance of how PAs work, etc), where do we get the sound source feeds from? Stage splitter? (Please go easy on me if this seems a ridiculously stupid question)

Thanks!

Ade
 
Need a stage splitter or a mixer that has a splitter built in. So all mics go into one central box either on the mixer or split snake. One tail to the house or if using a mixer with a splitter on it. Something like these two.

Snake Splitter Rack Mountable 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Send Splitter Snake with a 15' and 30' XLR fantail trunk | Pro Audio Stage, Road, or Studio Y Splitter Cable Snakes | 15 foot XLR cables | 30 foot XLR cables

Mixer with split and 12 aux sends

Allen & Heath WZ3 12M Mix Wizard Monitor Mixer | Musician's Friend
 
boltrecords said:
My advise is dont spare any expense. Skimping out on any portion of the setup with lead to crappy sound and in the end someone will be unhappy and ruin it for everyone.
Stereo, (I use the sennheiser ew300 g3). It's a great unit but I feel some others may be better.
Excellent CUSTOM MOLDED ear buds. I went all out and got JH audio 16's. I recommend saving up and making the best purchase first. Otherwise you'll end up doing what I did and upgrade 3 times and just waste money. Remember, you can't sell your used ones to anyone when you decide to upgrade. They are molded for only your ear. So do yourself a favor and just buy the best ones right off the bat and don't leave yourself wondering if the sound would be better.

Individual mixes is definitely key.

Minimize stage volume as much as you can to reduce any bleed through in the mics

Overall compression and carefully placed reverb for the mix is a great idea.

I EQ every channel like I would a recorded mix. Pull lows and highs in the right areas. Makes a nice clean mix

I'd stay away from any ported or vented ear mold. Causes you to lose your overall low end.

Ambient mics are a good idea if you have enough channels and are thrown off by any isolation.

Finally,...make sure everyone has their presets leveled so you don't have to run back and forth to the In ear board all night turning your keyboard player up...then down...then up....then down...then up....you get the idea. Drives me nuts. Eventually I just turn it down and leave it down. Lol

That's all I can think of for now.
Click to expand...
Lot of great advice here.

It is really hard to demo IEMs, so most purchases are made upon recommendation. I am lucky that I live local to JH Audio, so I stopped in an auditioned their entire lineup of demos. I immediately found that I hated ported IEMs as there is no way to effectively mix and pan the "ambient sound" coming through them. All it caused I felt was indistinct sound overall. In going through their lineup, I found that each step up was indeed a step up in performance. Remember I went to JHA16Pros from triple driver Ultimate Ears (which are no slouch). HUGE difference.

So yes, between the IEMs and a wireless unit, that made quick work of $2K.
 
In regards to wired vs. wireless,

I was suggesting trying it wired first before you commit to the wireless gear.

Speaking from experience, if you find out that IEM's are just not your thing, you haven't sunk that much capital into it.
 
Keg8605 said:
Need a stage splitter or a mixer that has a splitter built in. So all mics go into one central box either on the mixer or split snake. One tail to the house or if using a mixer with a splitter on it. Something like these two.

Snake Splitter Rack Mountable 16 Channel XLR TRS Combo Send Splitter Snake with a 15' and 30' XLR fantail trunk | Pro Audio Stage, Road, or Studio Y Splitter Cable Snakes | 15 foot XLR cables | 30 foot XLR cables

Mixer with split and 12 aux sends

Allen & Heath WZ3 12M Mix Wizard Monitor Mixer | Musician's Friend
Click to expand...
That's great info. Thanks!

TBurst Std said:
Lot of great advice here.

It is really hard to demo IEMs, so most purchases are made upon recommendation. I am lucky that I live local to JH Audio, so I stopped in an auditioned their entire lineup of demos. I immediately found that I hated ported IEMs as there is no way to effectively mix and pan the "ambient sound" coming through them. All it caused I felt was indistinct sound overall. In going through their lineup, I found that each step up was indeed a step up in performance. Remember I went to JHA16Pros from triple driver Ultimate Ears (which are no slouch). HUGE difference.

So yes, between the IEMs and a wireless unit, that made quick work of $2K.
Click to expand...
Again, great info. Thanks for the advice. It sure isn't cheap and I can see the overall costs for the band will be significant. I was looking at the Ultimate Ears 5 and 7 ranges. Would the UE 5's be a waste of money? I think I need to find a pro audio place somewhere in my region to try some of these things out.

barhrecords said:
In regards to wired vs. wireless,

I was suggesting trying it wired first before you commit to the wireless gear.

Speaking from experience, if you find out that IEM's are just not your thing, you haven't sunk that much capital into it.
Click to expand...
That's a very good point. Perhaps it may be worth starting out wired and seeing how we feel about the experience.

xrist04 said:
Have a chat with Mike Volkerding at In Ear Gear.


Complete Portable In Ear Monitor Rig
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Great link! Thanks.
 
Jh audio usually has a thanksgiving sale. That's when I bought mine. I think it was 15% off. I was right around 900 for the set.

Good audiologist is key as well. Don't do the impressions yourself. But don't get ripped off. Most will try and charge 50 an ear. I think I found mine for about 25 total for both. She was very good too
 
I would agree about buying right the first time. I use UE-18s and Shure PSM900 in a rather unconventional manner for times when I don't have a wedge or want better isolation so my transmitter is in my rack with one side being fed by the Axe and the other gets a house feed without guitar. I decided to go mono so I can control how much guitar is in the mix from my Shure receiver.
 
boltrecords said:
Jh audio usually has a thanksgiving sale. That's when I bought mine. I think it was 15% off. I was right around 900 for the set.

Good audiologist is key as well. Don't do the impressions yourself. But don't get ripped off. Most will try and charge 50 an ear. I think I found mine for about 25 total for both. She was very good too
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips, Anthony!
 
Great advice everyone - it's really useful, and is helping me get my head around this entire subject and, of course, seeing what kind of budget we'd be looking at.

So, looking at the kind of gear we'll need, taking into account the advice received here, and the type of set up shown in the video on ineargear.com, I think we'd be looking at an investment like this (assuming buying new):

1. Desk - $2k to $3k
2. MiPro receivers/transmitters x 3 = $3k
3. Stage snakes, road case, cables, etc = $1k

That makes $6 to $7k before the actual in-ears sets. Let's call it $10k for a 4-piece band. I'm guessing, but assuming we could get a used desk for around half the new price, plus keep the bassist wired (he doesn't move much anyway), maybe $7k to $8k all in.

Does this seem reasonable to those who've made the leap?
 
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