Moving to fractal from helix, need help!

there was something about the gain, a fizziness, that reminded me of the XT Live and X3 Live.
I'm just coming off an old Pod XT Pro, the only amp in there I liked at all for distortion was the JCM-800. Never was that happy with any of the Line 6 amp models. The effects were all great though.

Let's just say I'm really glad to be here, not that it helps the OP any :)
 
Not to hijack the thread here but I just put my helix up for sale today. Going through the fm3 vs fm9 dilemma myself. So thats 3 helix users here lol
 
Have you tried 3rd party IRs? That's often a missing ingredient for Line 6 users.

It would be an epic fail really to start looking at other modellers if you hadn't even tried IR's, I'm not being flippant to your question, it is something worth covering, just trying to emphasise I've tried all the normal stuff.

I use IR's from 3 sigma and a few I picked up from preset bundles you can buy, all the usual Marshall, Mesa stuff etc. It seems unlikely at this point that a new IR is going to change things for me, unless someone else has had this same experience and literally solved it with one particular IR?
 
Honestly, I think I'm probably at the same place with the Helix as you are. I've heard tons of clips with it that sound really good, but have always struggled to get there myself. I think that the biggest hurdle is that the stock settings for most amps are already in serious need of deep diving to get them even in the ballpark before the final tweaking to taste, and with the FM3 the stock settings are already right on the money.

Exactly. There's lots of demos of helix that sound perfect for me, yet I never get the same result. I can get those results with clean tones by the way, just not the heavy stuff, or what I should really call hard rock.

This seems to be a common theme, fractal is good straight out of the box, helix is terrible out of the box. I've spent more time tweaking than playing with this thing, and still not really got to what I want.

When I had the lin6 6 vetta 2 combo with on board effects, that was a good amp but distortion was fizzy and top end, low end was boomy. Moved to the HD 500, guess what? Fizzy and boomy. Moved to the Helix and it was better, but those traits continue.
My honest opinion is that helix can't really do satisfactory high gain. If you're not too fussy it's probably fine, but if I want to sound like a pro artist I'm listening to live, I'm not going to do it with this device, I don't think
 
What's up with the multiple Helix Bros in this thread??? ;)



It's almost like you are talking the OP into making the Helix work, when
he has said he has tried for years, and out of purchasing a Fractal.

Am I on the wrong forum or something, and don't even know it??


Haha this made me laugh! To be fair, I welcome the pro helix comments, just in case someone comes up with a solution that changes everything for me on the Helix, and also, it's a lot easier having this discussion here. Just mention fractal on some other forums I could mention and you're out in the cold lol.
 
Interesting conversation about the Helix high gain tones, in that I just watched a killer cover of a song, and the first thing I noticed was the tone was fizzy. Turns out he was using a Helix, and more than one person commented about that aspect of his tone. It wasn't terrible, but certainly enough that it was noticed.
 
I can only relay my own experience with the two. I've tried them through all kinds of setups at various volume levels:
  • Helix preamps into Bogner and Victory tube amps' fx returns.
  • Helix and FM3 amp models into a Fryette Power Station 100 and real guitar cabs.
  • Helix and FM3 amp models into the BluGuitar Amp 1 fx return and real guitar cabs.
  • Helix and FM3 amp models into computer and VST plugins (cab sims etc).
  • Helix and FM3 into Genelec M040 studio monitors.
  • Helix and FM3 into Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro 250 ohm and Sennheiser HD6XX 300 ohm headphones.
  • Helix and FM3 into PA/FRFR speakers.
All of these setups will sound different and respond in a different way no matter which modeler is in use. At low volume I like the studio monitors the best and at higher volume the PS-100 and guitar cabs is probably the most satisfying. Headphones need both frequency correction and room reverb to sound natural and are probably the worst option but sometimes a necessary one.

Many pros who use Fractal use it for effects. Fractal has better modulation and reverb effects than the Helix. No contest there.

I don't agree about "fizzy and artificial". Or boomy for that matter. Many of these aspects will depend on the room and your output system. For example there's a big 130 Hz boost in the room I play in at home so I use global EQ to dial that out or else some notes will sound boomy. Likewise placement of speakers and if they emphasize low end will matter.

I don't do anything particularly special with my presets. I mostly use ML Sound Lab multi-mic IR mixes exported from the MIKKO cab sim plugin if I am using IRs but you might use something from say York Audio just as well. I add some low cut usually around 80-100 Hz, high cut to taste. The cab or IR block low cut is very helpful for avoiding any boominess. I don't like many of the default settings on Helix amp models so I dial my own. For high gain tones I often reduce sag a bit from the default setting to tighten up the feel. I might use a graphic or parametric EQ either in front or after the amp to tweak things a bit more.

My experience is that Fractal modeling is not in some sort of different echelon from the competition. There's plenty of videos you can find on YT where people have dialed various modelers to sound very very close regardless of what genre of music is being played. That aligns with my own experience. Using the same IRs will give you very similar results. If we were to compare with their respective cab sims then I would prefer Fractal because its vast IR library is just plain better than Helix's stock cab sims.

When comparing it's also important to pick a reference tone. It can be a real amp or whichever modeler's dialed in tone you prefer. Then you figure out how to make them sound and feel the same. Putting in the same values for knobs does not work. It's also useful to use a decibel meter to make sure what you are hearing is coming out at the same volume because usually we hear louder as better. That alone probably accounts for a lot of the "X sounds so much better than Y" hyperbole we read on the internet.

Note that I am not trying to put down Fractal here. It sounds stellar and has a huge feature set. But I feel that the Helix amp modeling is not the aspect that is holding your tones back.

Interesting observations..

Can't comment on running Helix into amps or other devices, only my alto speakers and occasionally head phones. I note that through head phones it sounds like I would like, very over driven saturated distortion, but good dynamics, not messy or fizzy. But the head phone sound is nothing like the real output sound through speakers. It's a well known thing that, over on the Helix forum. I've never seen a good explanation for that but it's been talked about a lot.

Disagree on fizzy and boomy? Take a look on the forum. It could well be down to poorly set up amp models to begin with, I don't know, but I do know that if you try and dial in a beefy high gain, you're going to get boom and a lot of top end. I use cuts all the time like yourself, an 80 or 100 low cut yes, cut the highs as much as you can get away with, but it does start to end up sounding like a transistor radio in the end. The cuts do help the bass but on most Helix high gain amp models, if you dial the bass up even to just half way, it's boomy, it's not natural sounding and that makes it very hard to thicken the tone without the boom. My speakers are not on the floor either, they're at head height on stands.

You obviously have a lot of experience with the Helix and sounds like you've had better results. Do me a favour and see if you can get a nice tone using the Archetype Lead amp, maybe send me the IR you're using and how you've dialled it all in because if you're convinced my issues are not down to the Helix, then I'll give it one more shot. At the end of the day it would be easier for me to carry on using the Helix!
 
I think Mr. Chase is on a whole different level. I mean when the creator comes on the forum and says (I'm paraphrasing) he's had an epiphany in the middle of the night and can't wait to share an update with the community of product owners ...man that's a pretty special type of relationship for a multi effects developer/creator to have with people that have bought his product. Do the Yamaha guys do that? Idk. Can you directly ask the Yamaha guys a question and have an in depth conversation with them within hours? Idk.

Idk cuz I also do not get along with their products. Owned an HD500 for a couple days and traded it for a cell phone. Lol

Haha I wish I had done the same, unfortunately I kept mine a bit longer
 
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