Moving backward?

This has been going on for years- way back to the Axe-FX II. One version will be "more open" and another version will be "tighter" and its almost like an oscillation at this point where things go back and forth from one version to the next. I have no doubt that the accuracy is improving upward, though I expect if you could graph it you might see something like the volatility of a tech stock. :)

The biggest problem with just stepping off the train is that you miss out on all the other improvements and fixes along the way and there have been major improvements.

I compared the Axe-FX IIxl+ to the Axe-FX III last year and found myself thinking that Fractal had the amp sim part of the problem licked years ago. The biggest reason why I couldn't just keep the IIxl+ is all the other stuff that has been fixed and added.

I've been encouraged by the extra attention to effects in recent times. I'd like to see Fractal spend six months or a year ignoring the amp modeling and just focusing on effects and utility improvements. The amp stuff has long long long since been beyond good enough and those other areas would probably enjoy leaps and bounds. It may be that effects aren't as interesting to work on.
Perhaps you haven't been following our attention to the effects:

18.00

Overhauled the Compressor block:

Improved Tape preamp types in Cabinet block.


17.03

Improved Stack/Hold implementation in Delay block so that “texture” is applied to audio when Stack/Hold is on.

Improved Pedal, Optical, Tube, Analog, JFET and Dynamicomp types in Compressor block. Auto Attack/Release has been removed from Pedal and Dynamicomp types as it is no longer applicable. NOTE: These types now inherently perform automatic makeup gain. You should audition any presets using these types and adjust the Output Level accordingly.


17.01

Added 10 FullRes IRs to the Legacy bank provided by Valhallir and York Audio. These are at the end of the bank. These can be loaded into the IR Player blocks or into Slots 3 and 4 of the Cabinet blocks. Note that Slots 1 and 2 of the Cabinet blocks do not support FullRes.

Added dedicated Pitch Shifting to the Reverb block. This can be used to create “Shimmer Reverbs” easier than using separate Pitch and Reverb blocks (and with less CPU usage). Several new types are included to demonstrate the capability.

Overhauled the Megatap block. See the updated Blocks Guide for details.

Added Modern Gate type to Gate block. This type is similar to the Classic Gate except the gate opens in a constant linear-in-dB manner. This naturally makes the attack slower as the gate first opens and can be used for both traditional gating and for special effects like audio swells.

Added new types to the Multitap Delay block.

Added new types to the Plex Delay block.

Added LFO for filter in Plex Delay block.

Added new types to Flanger block.


17.00

Version 17 introduces FullRes™ Impulse Response processing. FullRes processes IRs up to 64K points with zero latency using a novel technique. This provides up to 1.37 seconds of response time. Seasoned producers and engineers often mix in “Room Mics” during recording to increase the depth and liveliness of recordings. However, the typical live room has a reverb time of 500-700 milliseconds, well beyond the 20-40 ms afforded by typical IR processing. FullRes allows capturing the full response of a typical live room and even the response of small-to-medium halls and clubs. FullRes can also be used for convolution reverb applications for reverb times less than 1.37 seconds.

Added 1S1588T diode SPICE model to Drive block. This is the Toshiba version of the 1S1588 and is reportedly the diode used in the “best sounding” TS-808s. The T808 OD models have been updated to use this diode. Existing presets are unchanged.

Added “Valve Screamer VS9” and "Maxoff 808" Drive models.


16.03

Improved Delay block algorithms and models. Improved menus by adding a basic Config page with the essential controls and an Advanced page with all the controls for that model. Added a Master Time control.

Added Compander type to Compressor block. The Transients control adjusts the transient modification. Values less than zero soften the attack, value greater than zero emphasize the attack.


16.01

Updated Blackglass 7K Drive block model. Previous model was incorrect due to defective reference unit.

Increased gain range of Filter and Parametric EQ blocks to +/-20 dB. Also increased gain range of input EQ in Amp block. Existing presets are automatically updated.

Improved Reverb algorithms. Added a couple new types.


Etc., etc., etc., etc.
 
I've said it before but I guess I need to say it again, if you want that 15.01 sound simply turn down Master Bias Excursion. That's why the control was added.

To be fair I've kept a pretty close eye on updates since 15.00 and wasn't at all aware of this - there's a lot of information to keep up with that often gets lost within dozen-page long threads, and that's if you're active in the forums to begin with.

But if it's a new control that was added specifically for those wanting more of the pre-Cygnus sound, then that's pretty neat and I'm curious to check it out. I was quite vocal about wanting the Maxon 808 added, so if I can find an excuse to go back to current FWs where my beloved pedal exists, I'll take it.
 
Perhaps you haven't been following our attention to the effects:

Oh I have- That's why I specifically said "I've been encouraged by the extra attention to effects in recent times"

I think its awesome! I added some emphasis to my post to be clear that I'm encouraged by the extra attention you have made- not just random extra attention by others. Sorry for any confusion.
 
The reason some people likely prefer 15.01 is because it doesn't have as much bias excursion. 16.00 and after use a new bias excursion algorithm which is much more accurate but also generates greater amounts of bias excursion.

You'll never get 15.01 to get that choked 5E3 Tweed sound whereas 16.00 and later replicate it very accurately.

Bias excursion reduces clarity and string separation but it's necessary for a realistic sound.

I've said it before but I guess I need to say it again, if you want that 15.01 sound simply turn down Master Bias Excursion. That's why the control was added.
Thanks for chiming in Cliff. Maybe I’ll give a another go soon mess with that excursion. I have no complaints. I just think maybe this newer modeling lends itself more to that Tweed style sound and not so much to the higher gain models. Thanks for your constant dedication to accuracy. I’m still happy as a clam with the older firmware so it’s all good.
 
<snip>

I compared the Axe-FX IIxl+ to the Axe-FX III last year and found myself thinking that Fractal had the amp sim part of the problem licked years ago. The biggest reason why I couldn't just keep the IIxl+ is all the other stuff that has been fixed and added.

<snip>
I went through the same exercise, I guess around the same time. Now I had figured that my favourite amp (Marshall 2203 of late JMP or early JCM800 vintage) is neither the nicest sounding, nor the easiest to model, because there are so many basic errors in the design. The intent was absolutely on point, but like the top boost Vox AC30, a lot of the character is in design inadequacies. (Or harmonic overtones as they might be described by those of us that like them... 🤣 )

So my first Axe FX, just a little before the release of Quantum, had me seriously worried. I knew my 2203 sounded "nasty", and no-one in their right mind would use it in the bedroom, or without clearing the studio so that only microphones got the full glory, and while it was a close replica of the sound, it was even nastier at low volume. But I gigged it, and with massive relief found that at performance volumes through a big FRFR rig it did what nothing else I had tried had achieved, and gave me something like my favourite amp, but with a proper clean channel (Fender Twin if I wanted it to be).

Then Quantum turned up, and aside from the "edge of breakup" tones that I use a lot, I got my favourite Marshall at home practice levels. I was still diving a little deep into power amp settings, but it was cosmic. It was a little frustrating that so many amps I didn't love as much, but have used extensively sounded quite so familiar, but the 2203 tone was more than close enough. I also had a gig or 2 with the Axe FX II after I was already using the Axe FX III in the studio, and in Quantum days it really did sound great. FC-12 still wasn't available in Europe, but AFX II and FC-101 still felt like a good place to land.

For me, Cygnus has only ever marched forwards since then. Ignoring all the amazing effects enhancements and improvements, there hasn't been a single instance where I've need to do much more than reset amp blocks to remove all the deep knob twiddling I did in the past to work around things that didn't feel quite right to me. There isn't a single amp model I have loved as a real amp in the past that I don't feel is really familiar (SF Fender Deluxe sounds totally uncouth compared to a Twin Reverb, for instance, and Princeton Reverb sound like everyone thinks a Twin sounds, but more so. I could go on. ;) ). Improved selection of factory IRs helps, but it's mostly down to improved amp modelling of late.

I haven't downloaded v19 yet, but 18.03 was a pretty smooth changeover now that I'm expecting Cygnus to just work. From my point of view the amp sim was definitely not "licked" with the Axe FX II, or even with v15.00 firmware on the Axe FX III. From v16.00 onwards I'm really interested to hear improvements in amp modelling. I keep thinking it cannot get any better, but it does.

Liam

(FWIW I've kept my Axe FX II. The way I figure, it's a relatively inexpensive way of having a couple of channels of fine quality outboard effects for studio or live use at worst.)
 
Just updated to 19.01 Beta last night and have been playing around with the bias excursion and bias time settings in some of my favorite presets.

As @FractalAudio said, the more polished tone that I liked in 15.01 came right back. Thanks for the guidance as I was pretty unlikely to find that on my own. Now I have another tool in the toolbox!

Apart from all the benefits, the Axe-FX III is also a lot of fun. Geek heaven! I wish all my purchases worked out this well…
 
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Just updated to 19.01 Beta last night and have been playing around with the bias excursion and bias time settings in some of my favorite presets.

As @FractalAudio said, the more polished tone that I liked in 15.01 came right back. Thanks for the guidance as I was pretty unlikely to find that on my own. Now I have another tool in the toolbox!

Apart from all the benefits, the Axe-FX IiI is also a lot of fun. Geek heaven! I wish all my purchases worked out this well…
What settings did you end up using, out of interest?
 
What settings did you end up using, out of interest?
My absolute fave preset was originally posted in the Axe-FX III Recordings forum with a cover of Wicked Game. I've since tweaked it a million different ways but it's still based on the Vibrato Lux model and factory IRs #538 & #545.

It's the preset in this thread:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...icked-game-guitar-sound-preset-inside.170480/

Right now I have the bias excursion at 52.8, excursion time at 1.878, and recovery time at 27.9.

I'm the first to admit I don't know specifically what these settings are doing so I'm basically playing around and seeing if I like the change. I got close enough to know I can get back to the sound I liked in FW 15.01 but I will certainly fiddle with it some more. (I should have noted the 15.01 settings before I updated the firmware last night but c'est la vie.)
 
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Just wanted to chime in again on this after working with 19.01 for a while. I’m sticking with it! I ended up changing my main high gain patch to the IIC+ Yellow Shred from the Triaxis yellow model, but it’s sounding pretty damn good right now. Not sure what happened with the Triaxis models, but they’re just real wooly sounding now. But it’s been over a decade since I had a real one so my reference is way gone.
 
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