Most common use for Scene Controllers?

[Jdzialak]

Why not just change parameters on different block channels?
Why would using scene controllers be a better choice?

How are you using them?

 

[DrGreencock]

For my bandmate using the FM3, scene controllers are a great way to get completely seamless, gapless, and stutter-free changes in gain levels.

We created a preset based around the Deliverance Hi model and could get a very nice clean to powerful hard rock crunch just by varying the input trim, gain and overdrive controls using scene controllers. He hated the split second dropout when switching channels and I do too - it's not a huge deal but just a little annoying and one thing I wish was different, coming from another modeler.

I've also used them to vary the amount of feedback or wet mix when I dial in a delay I really like. Sure, could use channels again, but there is something about hearing the same delay wash out instead of that jump and time distortion you'd get by channel changing to a different delay.

If I wanted to hear unintentional and weird time distortion effects while playing, I'd drop acid

 

[Admin M@]

The most common use for scene controllers is to adjust parameters when you don't want to change the channel. Sometimes, all of the available channels are already in use. (This is perhaps a more common application on the FM3 where there is only one amp block) Other times, they're used for sonic reasons, to prevent even the slightest of hiccups when making other changes. They can also be used with damping to allow morphing between sounds.

 

[Jdzialak]

Great info! Thanks!

 

[DrGreencock]

Ha, great to know we can try out the morphing idea! Now to create a preset around this... Thanks @Admin M@

 

[Randall Smith]

Why not just change parameters on different block channels?
Why would using scene controllers be a better choice?

How are you using them?

For me, I have them set on delay and reverb wet/dry control so I vary that by scene. I usually create a preset per song, so having the bridge wetter than the chorus is useful.

Could I do this with blocks, sure; but I have found in some instances switching delay or reverb blocks when there is audio going through them can create some funny sounds as the trails try to switch to the new block type.

 

[Prince]

Amp block, 4 channels with different tone/ideal settings: ch.A mid cut, ch.B mid boost, ch.C treble cut, ch.D treble boost. Then use Scene Controllers to alter the gain levels, Gain, Overdrive, & Master Volume. Scene 1 = low gain, Scene 2 = mid gain, Scene 3 = high gain. This way you can keep the gain level constant within a scene while changing the channels to see the effect the other parameters have on the tone.

 

[Cainer]

Ha, great to know we can try out the morphing idea! Now to create a preset around this... Thanks @Admin M@

yeah - I really want to tweak my leslie effect to have a ramping from low to high speed just like a real one would do. Gotta dig back into it after the holidays!

 

[unix-guy]

yeah - I really want to tweak my leslie effect to have a ramping from low to high speed just like a real one would do. Gotta dig back into it after the holidays!

Control Switch is a good choice... But you can also do it with a Scene Controller on scene changes.

 

[bleujazz3]

Am really looking forward towards digging deeper with CC's MasterClass for FM9. Scene Controllers and CS seem a little above my current paygrade to understand just yet, so CC's instructions should prove informative and beneficial at the same time. Yeah, I've not yet the skills to try either of these options...will wait until I've learned more in order to qualify to assist others who may need help with their FM9's.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I really want to tweak my leslie effect to have a ramping from low to high speed just like a real one would do.

I have a Rotary block that does that based on switching between channels A-C, A=slow, B=fast and C=brake. Setting the Hold function to increment the channels makes it possible to ramp up or down or hit the full stop quite easily. I’m happy with how it turned out.

It’d be easy to use separate scenes to switch the channels, but I didn’t want to waste additional scenes just to change an effect, especially one that we tend to use dynamically. Instead I assigned the tap action to bypass/enable the rotary and the hold function of the same switch handles the channels.

I’ll try to update this tomorrow with the block from my library.
I attached the block. It's saved from my FX3 running v.21.01 via Edit v1.12.12, and should be fine with FM* units running the current firmware and editors.

The ramp-down speed on the real cabinet is probably closer to 5 seconds "for reals" but I reduced it to 3.5. I've had it as low as 2.0 but wouldn't go lower than that if you're trying to maintain any semblance of the real thing.

Drive is useful if you want to get the growl that a lot of people enjoy from rotary cabinets. The Rotary page in the Blocks Guide covers the settings.

Here's how I set up a switch for bypass/engage and to control the speeds:

 

[Davus PG]

I use them for gain levels and seamless switching across scenes and also on cab block level. I honestly can't remember the exact reason for using them with the cab level but it was a tip from one of the gurus on here way back when I got my AX8 and I've done it ever since. I think it was to avoid volume loss of effect trails when changing scenes?

 

[Dave Merrill]

I have a Rotary block that does that based on switching between channels A-C, A=slow, B=fast and C=brake. Setting the Hold function to increment the channels makes it possible to ramp up or down or hit the full stop quite easily. I’m happy with how it turned out.

It’d be easy to use separate scenes to switch the channels, but I didn’t want to waste additional scenes just to change an effect, especially one that we tend to use dynamically. Instead I assigned the tap action to bypass/enable the rotary and the hold function of the same switch handles the channels.

I’ll try to update this tomorrow with the block from my library.

Same, except I didn't include a brake channel, not sure I need it, and having it in the channel sequence is a bit awkward.

Do you really like it Greg? It's not one of the classic Leslie sounds in my head.

 

[wal24]

Tap tempo is very good for controlling Leslie (Rotary).

 

[Dave Merrill]

Am I right that scene controllers can't change block channels? (not at my Axe)

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Same, except I didn't include a brake channel, not sure I need it, and having it in the channel sequence is a bit awkward.

Do you really like it Greg? It's not one of the classic Leslie sounds in my head.

The brake is used by keyboardists often, just as the other two speeds are. I use it the same way, as a counterpoint to the fast setting.

Stepping through the speeds using the hold works well because of how the Leslie ramps up and down, it flows together.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Tap tempo is very good for controlling Leslie (Rotary).

Not if you’re trying to match the authentic speeds.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Not if you’re trying to match the authentic speeds.

The research I've done says 48 rpm and 408 rpm for the top rotor, and about 5/6 (0.8333, yielding 40 and 340 rpm) of those for the low rotor are the usual speeds, given drive belts in good shape. They mention a 'middle pulley' in a few sources, which implies there are a couple other pulley choices available in the unit, which I assume give different speeds, since it would be a waste of pulleys to have extras that don't make any difference....

Would love to spend a day with a real one and do some measurements....

 

[Greg Ferguson]

The research I've done says 48 rpm and 408 rpm for the top rotor, and about 5/6 (0.8333, yielding 40 and 340 rpm) of those for the low rotor are the usual speeds, given drive belts in good shape. They mention a 'middle pulley' in a few sources, which implies there are a couple other pulley choices available in the unit, which I assume give different speeds, since it would be a waste of pulleys to have extras that don't make any difference....

Would love to spend a day with a real one and do some measurements....

I use the values from Wikipedia’s article. According to the manual there’s a three-step pulley to adjust the rotor speeds in addition to the two speeds of the motors, so the reported RPM values could vary depending on which pulley step is used.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

I use the values from Wikipedia’s article. According to the manual there’s a three-step pulley to adjust the rotor speeds in addition to the two speeds of the motors, so the reported RPM values could vary depending on which pulley step is used.

View attachment 112514

Good find on the manual. Will have to sit down with it on the computer and do the RTFM thing.

Yeah, the Wikipedia articles says "about 50 rpm" for the rotor's slow speed. A number of other sources state 48rpm. Not much info is available on the actual sizes of the two other pulleys, and on which side they reside (motor or horn/rotor side), so the difference in speed, which could be calculated based on the size ratios remains a mystery until one presents itself for examination. One could theoretically change pulley size on either or both assemblies, too, which gives a fair amount of variation, which would change the ratio of horn:rotor speeds and the speed change time constant....