More immediacy?

[James Nash]

an almost DI feel

Exactly! My reaction to the new impedance curves was not immediate love. I felt like I was gaining something, but also losing something. The more I got used to them, the more I liked them. I think the sound is simply more realistic, but it took a bit for me to get used to the feel difference.

 

[Rex]

Depends on what you mean by "immediacy." If you want the notes to jump out at you, consider a little compression in front of the amp, with the attack slowed down a bit.

 

[reclavea]

I think he’s referring to the similar immediacy in your face attack experienced like with those Egnater TOL ie4 & Egnater M4 preamps.

Just before I purchased my first Axe the Ultra, I started using both of those Egnater preamps.

Immediate is a great description of the attack.

 

[giantslayer]

Speaker impedance curves may play a role here. The newer curves sound more organic and detailed to me, but I can see how the difference might be perceived as less immediacy. Might be worth dialing in the same impedance curve as you're using on the II.

+1
The new speaker impedance curves are very different from what was on the II. The default one for whatever amps you're using might just not be doing it for you. Try experimenting with different ones (they are in the advanced AMP tab).

 

[Randalljax]

try the gain enhancer in the output compression
play with the impedance curves ..

coming from tubes I personally agree w the others here the AX3 is more amp like in the way it reacts

 

[shatteredsquare]

@luke on the speaker page, turn down LF Resonance all the way down, play on it, it will be snappy af, no more bass. Dial back in as much low end as you like from zero until it fills in the bottom but before it flubs out...

 

[luke]

Speaker page in the amp block: turn speaker compliance and speaker compression to zero (was already at zero). make sure output compression is at zero in the amp dynamics page (was already at zero) also. I like notes to bloom, swell and explode so I do opposite of what I just said above. I thought pick attack was more immediate in fw12.03.

Reducing this to zero helped a lot.

I experienced this too when I switched. I suspect the III is more "accurate" with a lot more realistic compression factors, some of which are on by default.

On AMPs I almost always turn down/off: Speaker Compression, Speaker Compliance, Speaker Drive. I play with SAG too which can bring up punch/immediacy. You can also try turning off Preamp Sag in the Advanced tab.

Another option is to use a dynamic compressor for dynamic expansion before or after the amp, perhaps using side chain on input 1.

As did this.

On the speaker page, turn LF Resonance down all the way, you can turn down HF Resonance too but that kills everything. Turning the LF Resonance knob down lets you hear it without the BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, let's you tune the breakup right, then mix back in as much low end as you need. LF Resonance is all power amp low end resonance, basically a depth knob in amps that don't have one

As did this.

Did you set the III output to +4dbu?

This just made it louder, not effect on the immediacy I could notice.

Thanks to everyone for the help, I am a lot closer than I was yesterday.

 

[shatteredsquare]

You could turn up variac to 150% too, the more power it has the snappier it will be

 

[jefferski]

Did you check the input gate? Maybe it's opening a bit too slowly...

 

[shatteredsquare]

Reducing Xformer match would make it more immediate, turning it down is undermatching the output transformer (makes it a smaller), smaller Xformer compared to same wattage makes for snapper response. Parameters like those will be more audible when the MV is turned up higher, if you've got MV on 2.00 or below it's less easy to discern a difference, easier to tell what it's doing if MV is being pushed

 

[Tonic]

I feel the same.
Compared to my real JP2 where the sound is jumping out the speaker even a low volume, the axe is less responsive and direct feeling.

Axe fx 3 with SS power amp to compare apple to apple

 

[unix-guy]

EVERYTHING is identical, except the immediacy.

That's the first problem

These are not identical units so using identical settings would not get identical results.

The amp modeling has improved significantly on the Axe Fx III... Not to mention other improvements.

Did you convert presets from the II? You might want to reset the Amp block (at minimum) and dial things in again.

 

[shatteredsquare]

Compared to my real JP2 where the sound is jumping out the speaker even a low volume, the axe is less responsive and direct feeling.

If you're playing at low volume with AFX3, turn LF resonance down until the sound jumps out of the speaker the way you like it. LF resonance isn't linked to MV at all in AFX3 right now, so even on whisper level MV, the virtual speaker is resonating the virtual power amp the same amount as if it were screaming loud. The LF resonance knob is your bedroom guitar hero tone knob. With it at default level, it's sucking up a bunch of bandwidth from the power amp as if the amp were getting pushed hard, if you were playing at an actual volume level equivalent to how hard the virtual PA is working, you'd feel that pumping come through in the low end and be able to dig into it and work with it, but at lower playing levels you don't really feel it, the effect it has is to just mess up what you do hear in a weird way, like something sucking on the power. That's the low end resonance from the speaker impedance curve, way too strong for the given playing volume level.

 

[shatteredsquare]

When I play the II the notes seems to jump out of the CLRs more and do so more quickly. The III seems to be a tamed down version by comparison.

That's a dynamics description, AFX3 has way better power amp modelling than AFX2, and new richer speaker impedance interaction. At low volumes like you're used to playing your real amp, speaker and PA interaction is nill in a real amp, LF resonance won't be audible yet, it's basically preamp tone and speaker filtering. In AFX3, even with MV on 0.07, the speaker resonance (LF resonance) is in its own dimension, booming away as if the MV is already pushing hard, just need to turn down LF Resonance if you're going for that light-touch low-volume Mesa just-the-preamp crunch that tracks the string 1:1 as fast as you can go...with LF Resonance up at default setting the extra low end is eating into the power bandwidth of the virtual power amp as if it were turned up, effecting the preamp response in a way that's not characteristic of the amp when used at very low volume.

 

[Lecchu]

Thax for this tips. I used this on AX8 and works also. Many thank you!

Edit after 10min: Holy sh..t, how this works!

 

[Budda]

@shatteredsquare thanks for the tip.

 

[yeky83]

That's a dynamics description, AFX3 has way better power amp modelling than AFX2, and new richer speaker impedance interaction. At low volumes like you're used to playing your real amp, speaker and PA interaction is nill in a real amp, LF resonance won't be audible yet, it's basically preamp tone and speaker filtering. In AFX3, even with MV on 0.07, the speaker resonance (LF resonance) is in its own dimension, booming away as if the MV is already pushing hard, just need to turn down LF Resonance if you're going for that light-touch low-volume Mesa just-the-preamp crunch that tracks the string 1:1 as fast as you can go...with LF Resonance up at default setting the extra low end is eating into the power bandwidth of the virtual power amp as if it were turned up, effecting the preamp response in a way that's not characteristic of the amp when used at very low volume.

That’s not how it works, there’s no difference in LF Resonance like you’re describing between a real amp and the amp model. @FractalAudio already explained why to you here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...aster-volume-level.155270/page-4#post-1849643

 

[Genghis]

Speaker page in the amp block: turn speaker compliance and speaker compression to zero. make sure output compression is at zero in the amp dynamics page also.

I like notes to bloom, swell and explode so I do opposite of what I just said above. I thought pick attack was more immediate in fw12.03.

Great info. Overall happy with everything now, but since I really like my rhythm tone to be very percussive and my leads to bloom I think I'll be doing some experimentation with that after work today. Every little bit you know about this thing adds to the feel we like as much as the subtleties of the tone. I use the channels to switch so I get the lead boost while kicking a bit more mids and sustain by turning up the master for solos. Adds to the compression and sweetens the bloom for me. Your tip will help dial that in even better.

 

[shatteredsquare]

Yeah amps don't behave that way, that's why when you do it the AFX3 behaves and sounds just like the amp, any difference you hear is your imagination and you also are completely wrong. All noted, thanks.

 

[shatteredsquare]

Immediate is a great description of the attack.

DI feels immediate, preamp into an IR feels immediate, you add power amp sag and immediacy begins to decrease the more you work the PA, a highly desirable guitar tone characteristic. Anything less than immediate indicates a greater-than-desired amount of power amp dynamics being introduced... if sag at 1.00 and MV at 1.00 still doesn't feel immediate, something else is still sucking on the power to effect the immediacy of the dynamics