More "Dave Friedman's thoughts on Modelling"

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I really love the feel and sound of the Friedman amp sims in the Axe-Fx. Enough to make me want to buy the real amps but if according to Dave they feel and sound different I'm not interested in the real amps. ;) That's a bit tongue-in-cheek but seriously I'm very disappointed to see Dave talk about "modelers" that way and especially including Fractal... the way he showed the gain control use was the Axe-Fx right and Neil Schon bashing as well? I for one would've never even heard of his company if the Axe-Fx didn't have the Marsha and Friedman amp sims in it. Fractal has done more good to his company by always having some of the best amp sims be "Friedmans".

This reminds me of when millionaire musicians got angry because of Napster. Yes it's "unfair" but it's inevitable. MP3s are easier and better than CD. Modelers are easier and better than real amps. This only makes me think that they might not be doing so great financially and losing to modelers is getting to him. Honestly he reminded me of Trump in so many ways. He literally said "it sounds like s***" when asked about the Katana. Sure it's a cheapo practice amp but Dave "is his own brand". He could've said something like "there's pro gear and then there's something you practice at home with" and that would've been the classy way to handle that question.

But sure, it's hard to keep your emotions out of it especially when going through hard times. I know I've said a couple of things that I wish I could take back...

I agree, the genie's out of the bottle now and that technology cannot be uninvented. He may not like it but it's pure Darwinism - adapt or die out

At one point Dave was asked which amp he would recommend by an audience members 16 year old daughter to use when busking (There was a wide range of odd questions)
When he turned around and bizarrely recommended the Dirty Shirley combo rather than something more appropriate like a Roland Cube, I remember thinking, c'mon Dave you're a car salesman trying to sell a supercar to a learner driver here, just say your amps aren't suited to that and suggest something that would actually work for her

But he's there to make a buck
 
I really love the feel and sound of the Friedman amp sims in the Axe-Fx. Enough to make me want to buy the real amps but if according to Dave they feel and sound different I'm not interested in the real amps.

I own a Runt 50, one of my best friends owns a SmallBox and another friend owns a Dirty Shirley, all of them have the Friedman CORE tone in them, but with slight variation. My Runt is better replicated by the BE emulation than anything else. The Fractal SB emulation really does not feel or sound close to the real thing. My friend own an Axe FX II and we have tried hard to replicate it but its impossible. The DS Emulation also comes close to the real deal, but lacks dynamics that are very prominent with the real amp.

When i did a test comparison with my Suhr Badger 18 i got almost identical sound and feel from the Fractal Emulation, but when trying the same thing with my Modded Badger 35 using the Badger 30 emulation changing the power tubes to EL84 and moving things around it was very difficult. The only Axe amp that come close if a Marshall 50W emulation but when i change back to the real amp the dynamica do feel better, the way the sounds breaks up also is noticeably richer.

When i don't want to fire up my amps i use the Axe FX in all its glory and im happy. but im happier with real amps.
 
I also love real amps. I do have to make some tweaks to get my Mesa Mark series sounds but my Dual Recto sounds exactly like the Recto amp sims in the Axe-Fx. I mean the presence knob is slightly different but other than that I get them almost identical. Once I get the sounds almost identical, I take a sad look at my tube amps like their time is over. I think the right move for amp manufacturers these days is to say "imitation is highest form of flattery" even if it is hurting their business. Nothing good will come out of bashing the competition and in Friedman's case, the Axe-Fx has been amazing promotion for them.
 
I also love real amps. I do have to make some tweaks to get my Mesa Mark series sounds but my Dual Recto sounds exactly like the Recto amp sims in the Axe-Fx. I mean the presence knob is slightly different but other than that I get them almost identical. Once I get the sounds almost identical, I take a sad look at my tube amps like their time is over. I think the right move for amp manufacturers these days is to say "imitation is highest form of flattery" even if it is hurting their business. Nothing good will come out of bashing the competition and in Friedman's case, the Axe-Fx has been amazing promotion for them.

Dave is just doing its business man part, i mean if i was in his shoes i would do the same.
 
I'm guessing in some cases amp builders are just not educated on the latest modeling tech (AxeFX). They're in their own little world and just bawk at the latest thing to come down the pike as if it were a cheap 80's processor. In Dave's case, at times he does sound like he's just uneducated on the subject. But I find it hard to believe since he has/had Pete Thorn and his small studio setup at Dave's shop. It would be nearly impossible to assume Dave hasn't been in there having Pete give him the grand tour of the AxeFx/Axe 8.

Anyway, love Dave's amps. I'd love to see Cliff and or Matt on Tone Talk. Not as a confrontational show but as any other guests he's had that are in the biz. \m/
 
Watch from 1:06, after a question or two on picking dynamics colouring tone he has a dig at modelers, specifically Neal Schon's rig, saying it sounded horrible.

If so, that would be about Neal's choices and one particular listener's preferences. It has nothing to do with the Axe-Fx or modeling technology in general. There's also more to the above story than meets the eye, but I digress.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but from the perspective of how someone "sounds" I'll add this: I listen to amps and modelers side by side day after day after day. Listeners generally can't tell the difference. When they can, they don't have a preference. In most cases, players can't tell either (when you do an apples-to-apples comparison behind the glass). Again: when they can, there generally isn't a strong preference one way or the other in terms of which is best. Sometimes, modeling won't reproduce a quirky flaw that turns out to be desirable "(Yeah, but it doesn't do that one weird/cool thing...". Sometimes, that flaw is undesirable, giving rise to a statement I hear again and again: "the model sounds better than the amp."

By the way, concerning how things sound as an indication of the way things are... I was also told that when Pete Thorn recorded some clips of an Axe-Fx model of one of Dave's amps and set it forth as an A/B test, Dave thought that the recording of the model was the real amp.
 
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thinking someone who was in the market for a $3500 amp isn’t going to still be in that market , just because a $1100 modeler has the model, is rather like Ferrari etc, thinking they are losing sales of exotic cars becasue people can play those cars in a video game.

I’d wager 99% of folks who are happy to play a Friedman model were never seriously going to be the amps since they are quite expensive.

I think nice sounding models help promote the amps, and the brand. Then those 1% who have a reason or budget for the high end amps might seek out that brand, instead of just going to a stock Marshall etc

Seems to be working for Carol Ann from what I understand.
 
I was also told that when Pete Thorn recorded some clips of an Axe-Fx model of one of Dave's amps and set it forth as an A/B test, Dave thought that the recording of the model was the real amp.
LOL.

And to @lqdsnddist point, there's probably 75+ amps in here that I'd never heard of before I joined the FAS world (not to mention some of the pedals as well). Now, if I was going to buy a real amp, there's any number of those that I'd consider. In reality though, I never will... but I may tell someone else about many of them depending on what they're looking for. Friedmans included ;-)
 
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