More "Dave Friedman's thoughts on Modelling"

Status
Not open for further replies.

ak301

Power User
I've posted Dave's musings on modelling before, but last night I went to Dave's event at Peach Guitars here in England

After Sam (didn't get his full name) did a demo of a few songs of his own through a BE, great tone, Dave did a Q&A, and eventually the topic of modellers came up, one of the audience members asked Dave about them and told Dave he thought they "were just a fad", and asked what Dave his thoughts were about the various brands modelling his amps. Dave said he thought of it almost as theft and said moddellers had no dynamics or depth, and the interaction between the guitar and speaker weren't the same, and mentioned something about them "not being music" - Though I didn't quite hear that last bit, so can't confirm 100% what he said.
I found it ironic what he said, considering at the time he was stood right next to the two FRFR cabs he sells specifically for modellers, one of which I own

I did feel like asking if he knew how many people bought his products after trying them through modellers, but the conversation had moved on.

I get that he is there pushing his products, but what annoyed me was with other types of amps he was all "well if that's what works for you" but any mention of digital it was all meh

And then this morning I watched this,
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/vi...ideos/2211161015765090/&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>

Watch from 1:06, after a question or two on picking dynamics colouring tone he has a dig at modellers, specifically Neal Schon's rig, saying it sounded horrible,
To be honest I doubt I'd use Neil's tones as an example of what the AXEIII can do, but it's certainly not the POS Dave implies

Now I like Dave, and I do think he does know how to make a classic ballsy marshall sounding amp, but I do find it ironic him ragging on new technology.
Which as much as he might not like it, isn't going to go away anytime soon, considering how he's built his company on reproducing other amp sounds

Thoughts?
 
He's beating a what now 50 year old dead horse design? He wants to sell amps.


He also likes to sell his pedals which he likes to claim sound just like the amps, unless of course you’d rather buy a $3000+ amp, in which case the amp is certainly what he wants you to get
 
I hate modelers! Here; buy my 100lb, bass heavy overpriced FRFR! I didn't have time to think of clever and suggestive name for it so ASM it is!

Keep in mind the design of the ASM wasn’t even original, it was essentially a lower end PA wedge. Apparently Dave spec’d better drivers and cabinet materials, but it certainly wasn’t a ground up design on his part, more just finding a cheap way to get part of the growing FrFr market
 
Keep in mind the design of the ASM wasn’t even original, it was essentially a lower end PA wedge. Apparently Dave spec’d better drivers and cabinet materials, but it certainly wasn’t a ground up design on his part, more just finding a cheap way to get part of the growing FrFr market
Yeah for some reason this particular builder and his grumpiness about it yet 100% about face to cash in on what he says he hates has always just bothered me.


Speaking of hypocrisy; I'd gladly try one of his newer ASM 10's :D
 
Reacting on hearsay is never wise.

But if he used the term “theft”, when the man’s entire own career is based on modding, replicating and improving existing designs, well .......

But again, he has great skills, good ears and seems like a cool guy (albeit with a bad taste in naming amps).
 
Reacting on hearsay is never wise.

But if he used the term “theft”, when the man’s entire own career is based on modding, replicating and improving existing designs, well .......

Yes on both parts.

His job is to sell amps. He's never going to say 'Go get a modeler that sounds like my amp'. Not going to happen. He's in sales mode, so take that as it is.

And I thought a few years back he had assisted in accuracy of modeling his amps. So this would be different behaviour. Perhaps really starting to impact his bottom line?
 
Haven't other "Big names" in amp design approved modeles in the Axe-FX and as a consequence actually improved sales for their amps? I swear I remember some amp designer saying that.
 
Frank from L6 is probably the most respectful of other products rep I have ever seen on forums. Pretty much the polar opposite to what OP is describing.

This is exactly what I was thinking

Thanks man! :)

No probs, Phil Collen was the guy who got me into playing in the first place and still a big fav

Reacting on hearsay is never wise.

But if he used the term “theft”, when the man’s entire own career is based on modding, replicating and improving existing designs, well .......

But again, he has great skills, good ears and seems like a cool guy (albeit with a bad taste in naming amps).

Well lets just say I'm considered a professional witness in my day job. I did remember thinking when he said "That's a ballsy statement" considering a few min later he was talking about the cease and desist letter he got from "a certain amp builder from England" over his Marsha amp

Either way I did think it a less than classy move considering the way folks like Frank from Line6 and a few others talk about their peers

I have had fun today nailing what I liked about Sam's tone last night with the Friedman 18 model in my AX8, cleans up nicely with my volume knob, and loads of dynamics. So I know I have no need of his amps for my uses pending a lottery win!
 
I really love the feel and sound of the Friedman amp sims in the Axe-Fx. Enough to make me want to buy the real amps but if according to Dave they feel and sound different I'm not interested in the real amps. ;) That's a bit tongue-in-cheek but seriously I'm very disappointed to see Dave talk about "modelers" that way and especially including Fractal... the way he showed the gain control use was the Axe-Fx right and Neil Schon bashing as well? I for one would've never even heard of his company if the Axe-Fx didn't have the Marsha and Friedman amp sims in it. Fractal has done more good to his company by always having some of the best amp sims be "Friedmans".

This reminds me of when millionaire musicians got angry because of Napster. Yes it's "unfair" but it's inevitable. MP3s are easier and better than CD. Modelers are easier and better than real amps. This only makes me think that they might not be doing so great financially and losing to modelers is getting to him. Honestly he reminded me of Trump in so many ways. He literally said "it sounds like s***" when asked about the Katana. Sure it's a cheapo practice amp but Dave "is his own brand". He could've said something like "there's pro gear and then there's something you practice at home with" and that would've been the classy way to handle that question.

But sure, it's hard to keep your emotions out of it especially when going through hard times. I know I've said a couple of things that I wish I could take back...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom