Mono or Stereo?

peteri

Power User
I've used my AX8, and now use my III set to sum L+R and going into a single DXR-10.

Love the sound, and would struggle for space to get a second - but am I missing anything by not running stereo (with the delays etc)?

This is just for home use BTW
 
I have no phasing issues, I'm well aware of those.

I'm more questioning - do people believe stereo reverb and delay (and maybe chorus) has a real advantage?
 
I have no phasing issues, I'm well aware of those.

I'm more questioning - do people believe stereo reverb and delay (and maybe chorus) has a real advantage?


It’s got the obvious advantage that it’s stereo. I mean come on, anyone still enjoy mono recordings ? Anyone walk around with just one ear bud in ? Ever buy a home ‘stereo’ system with just one speaker ?

Stereo obviously has an advantage.

It’s not a question of if stereo is cool, it’s just a question of what the point of summing stereo to mono if you’ve only got one monitor.

When I run a mono rig I still use my same stereo patches, I just plug into the left output. Thus mono sound, no phase issues, no need to have two sets of patches etc

That all said, if it’s for home and you have the budget, get a second monitor. It’s awesome playing in the “sweet spot”.
 
It’s not a question of if stereo is cool, it’s just a question of what the point of summing stereo to mono if you’ve only got one monitor.

For about 15 years I played through multi-effects into a clean channel on a 2x12 combo. I miked-up with a 57 to desk if we used an off-stage desk, but mostly we didn't need to for small rooms (the amp was 210 watts into 4 ohms).

Multieffects worked OK in mono processing mode, but it worked brilliantly in stereo processing mode as the parallel effects processing benefits remained even when you have to combine L and R outs to a 1/4 inch mono adapter, to go into the input on the amp front panel. That worked fantastically well for years, and the stereo processing into a mono input was a massive improvement to all my sounds. But due cab modelling, newer systems are best not used into an amp like that. Use an FRFR speaker or speakers instead---much better sound quality.

Comparing guitar rigs to a 2 speaker home stereo system is not a valid point, IMO. The real point here is the accessing of parallel-processing effects options, that still radically improve the sounds, even when needing to drop it back to a mono input and mike that up to a PA---or else just use the stage amp, alone.

The stereo processing into a mono amp is always vastly better than mono-serial processed into a mono amp---ALWAYS.

As for phase processing glitch matters, this is very overstated factor, it's actually a total non-issue for the player when they're editing or playing with this sort of stereo into mono setup. This is because you still tune for 'perfect' sounds, i.e. if a time-based parameter setting sounds 'off', or nasal, or is interferred due to phase mis-match, guess what? You just don't use that setting. You instead tweak the knob about +/- 0.1 of the parameter range to either side of that to correct for it---like, such a big fricken deal. lol

To the original poster, stereo processing into mono monitor is fine, nothing wrong with it, but of course full stereo FRFR is mucho yummy. But for small gigs, or small rooms and stages, the crowd mosly won't even notice, either way, and care even less. Just focus on stereo processing into a mono source and making it rip and sounding big and bold.

Frankly, having two +40 lb FRFR cabs on a small tight stage sucks, so if you can do it with just one, via using an adapter to physically combine L and R into a mono input to the single FRFR---go for it. Thus I make sure my patches sound good in stereo, and in live mono monitoring. If you use a physical adapter to do it you don't have to alter or undermine your unit or patch internal routings to combine L and R back to mono (which was an issue on some older multieffects units without interal global-out switching).
 
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The stereo processing into a mono amp is always vastly better than mono-serial processed into a mono amp---ALWAYS.
i'm sorry but this is just not true at all. depending on exactly what your stereo effect is doing, you can completely ruin your tone or effects with phase cancelling.

just try a 2290 delay with Sum L+R output - the delay will disappear due to phase cancelling due to summing Left and Right since the Right side is Phase Reversed.

As for phase processing glitch matters, this is very overstated factor, it's actually a total non-issue for the player when they're editing or playing with this sort of stereo into mono setup.
if this was a total non-issue, then you wouldn't have needed to describe how to fix it in the next sentence.

yes, generally speaking summing to Mono doesn't ruin things all the time. but when you use phrases like "always better" and "total non-issue", that's just not accurate at all. it happens way more than "never."
 
"Yes, generally speaking summing to Mono doesn't ruin things all the time."

If you created and edit sounds for it, yes, it never ruins them. Too much is made of it. I worked that way for years, with no feeling that it was inferior in any way. Today I use stereo, most of the time, especially at home, but I don't hesitate to go back to mono, as I know my live patches are set up for it already.

The idea of using just the Left channel, yeah, now that's a really poor compromise solution to me. Stereo FRFR is ideal, but stereo into mono is pretty much just as good, if you build the sounds to work in that way. And frankly, it's just as easy as making the stereo sounds when you have your rig physically routed that way. No downside noticed.
 
Chris, some people just aren't worth arguing with.....
Didn’t approach it as arguing. But I know what you’re saying.

When new people read such a sure statement like “always” and “total non-issue” they tend to take it as internet fact.

So it’s less about the guy who posted that - I really don’t care what he thinks with such a strong opinion. But rather I’m providing alternatives to others who may see that statement.
 
as I know my live patches are set up for it already.
See, that’s a HUGE part you’re just glossing over. Someone asking if they should go stereo or mono probably doesn’t know how to set them up for that.

You might as well say “nothing is ever a problem (if you know what you’re doing)” and call it a day :)
 
See, that’s a HUGE part you’re just glossing over. Someone asking if they should go stereo or mono probably doesn’t know how to set them up for that.

You might as well say “nothing is ever a problem (if you know what you’re doing)” and call it a day :)

Yeah, I had no idea how to do it either, until I tried, and realised it's a piece of cake. No drama, just a process, same as making stereo sounds. I just run them mono also, after making the stereo sound, and make sure it works in mono too. If not (rarely), I'll spend a about a minute tweaking it to work in L+R mono, also.

Gee, that's real tough.

If doing this didn't work my multi-effects rig would not work, nor sound incredible when processing in stereo but used in mono, but it does, and it does.

Blinkered much?

Not only does it work, it works great.
 
and make sure it works in mono too. If not (rarely), I'll spend a about a minute tweaking it to work in L+R mono, also.

Gee, that's real tough.
Easy for you but a challenge to others. If you have any tips to how you can do it so quickly, I’m sure others would be appreciative.
 
... I really don’t care what he thinks with such a strong opinion.

But now you do?

I already said to process in stereo and combine L and R into a mono FRFR monitor, and check your live sounds for any issues. If you find issues use bypass to find the source of the issue then edit or re-route to eliminate the interference. i.e. rethink how you route and set things, to learn what works and how to avoid creating those issues (which for me, are fairly rare now).

As for creating 'internet facts', here's one you're too blinkered to see for yourself. You're creating an imaginary perceptual and financial hurdle to potential new users, via making people (falsely) think they need to buy a pair of quality FRFR speakers to use such a system properly in a mandated stereo config. When just buying one powered FRFR speaker would be sufficient to get them learning how to use that alone, with excellent results. You are creating the impression it can't really be done that way which is actually what's not true.

Do you want to create fake hurdles to uptake? I would have thought not. I suggest you re-read the links that you posted, above about the mono verses stereo question and pay particular attention to the remarks by the live players commenting, as most are basically saying the same thing I'm telling you. Note that most prefer to play gigs mono (even with two FRFR speakers).

Now ask yourself, how they are doing that? Much like I do, I bet. And why do they prefer mono then, if they have the gear to use it in stereo?

Yes, I recommend people eventually get two FRFR powered speakers. But even with two myself I still often use stereo for at home, and mono both of them for live depending on the stage, room and mix options. And more often than not I'll run both bins in mono, beside each other, but benefit from better dispersion and twin-bin 'omph'. This is because after using a stereo spread on stage for a couple of years I played a gig mono, and realised I loved it that way. I was missing nothing when playing through them in mono, plus the crowd didn't even notice the difference. So I realised I'm happy to process in stereo and play gigs in mono, which greatly simplified my setup. I use less stage room and the band likes that, and I like that. I can use both bins, or just one for some gigs.

Thus I don't even think in stereo-processing imagining terms, as the image doesn't matter to me. I think in PARALLEL processing terms, instead, and make sure the results work in mono, as a priority. Parallel processing that works in mono also generally sounds great in stereo too, if I want to use the stereo image option. Mostly I don't, that's not my objective, except at home it's nice for plinking.

So rather that presuming I don't understand the stereo options, or their benefits, perhaps realise you're a bit blinkered and dismissive to other legit ways of doing this and to parallel-processing as the OBJECTIVE. And not for stereo-imaging to be the objective, or even necessarily desireable. If you want stereo imaging, fine. All I want is the parallel effect options, and I don't care if the person on mix chooses to make of it a stereo image or not. But I'm not accepting being told what I do is 'wrong', or that I'm creating false 'internet facts', when from my point-of-view that's just the pot calling the kettle black. 2c

Horses for courses.
 
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lots of recent discussion here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/to-mono-or-to-stereo.140148/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/does-your-band-run-mono-or-stereo-guitars-live.139872/

try a search next time, top right area of the forum. many, many things have been discussed many, many times here already and there is a lot of info readily available.

new discussions are great too, but people won't type things again usually so you miss out.

thanks Chris - I did search for stereo before I created a thread - obviously need to improve my search skills!
 
See, that’s a HUGE part you’re just glossing over. Someone asking if they should go stereo or mono probably doesn’t know how to set them up for that.

You might as well say “nothing is ever a problem (if you know what you’re doing)” and call it a day :)
Exactly! The next question is how does one create their presets so they can easily go stereo or mono at a live gig?

BTW, I typically use the Mission Gemini stereo FRFR 2x12 cabinet/amp with no mic to FOH since my band typically does bar gigs. However, we do 5-10 gigs a year where there is a House PA. For those I have gone stereo and just relied on the sound guy who knows us to make it sound good. But I haven’t used the Ax III to gig yet since I need to convert presets, etc. I’m very intrigued by Dave Rat’s video. Wondering if I should create presets with 2 amps for gigs where we go to FOH.
 
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