Momentary - Latch

slinky005

slinky005

Power User
I use a Roland FC-300 controller.
Everything worked as expected with the Axe II.
I went ahead and setup a couple of switches for scenes.
With the III in order for the switch to function as momentary, I had to set it to latch.
Couldn't find anything in the manual about possible user error.
 
chris said:
What do you mean set the switch to Momentary? How does that relate to Scenes?
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On the FC, you can set a switch to either momentary or latch type.

I use two switches for scene inc and dec.

A Momentary switch remains in its “on” state only as long as it is being compressed. Once the user removes the compression of the switch the device is no longer on. ... A latching switch needs to be pressed once for ON and again for OFF, for example a light switch.

I use Momentary type to change scenes.
It's not a game changer but wondering why it's not behaving the way it's designed.
 
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For Scenes, you only need to send an On value... There is no Off for a scene.

What happens when you use the momentary type?
 
unix-guy said:
For Scenes, you only need to send an On value... There is no Off for a scene.

What happens when you use the momentary type?
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It sends two bursts of data so instead of incrementing one scene it does two - one for switch down and one for switch up (basically stepping on a pedal switch - a latch functionality).
As I said for the Axe II it worked as designed.
Its not a big deal to re-program the switch but it shouldn't work this way.
 
slinky005 said:
It sends two bursts of data so instead of incrementing one scene it does two - one for switch down and one for switch up (basically stepping on a pedal switch - a latch functionality).
As I said for the Axe II it worked as designed.
Its not a big deal to re-program the switch but it shouldn't work this way.
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Hmm... Not sure why the II would be any different? If you send 2 midi commands, it should operate on both.

It makes sense that it sends 2 commands: an ON followed by an OFF, as that is how a momentary should function.

Are you sure it works the way you want with latching? Because in that method, it should send an ON value on the first press and an OFF value on the 2nd press (which I would think has no effect).

Are you using Scene Increment/Decrement or specific scenes?

Does your FC allow setting the data values for CC on and off?
 
unix-guy said:
Hmm... Not sure why the II would be any different? If you send 2 midi commands, it should operate on both.

It makes sense that it sends 2 commands: an ON followed by an OFF, as that is how a momentary should function.

Are you sure it works the way you want with latching? Because in that method, it should send an ON value on the first press and an OFF value on the 2nd press (which I would think has no effect).

Are you using Scene Increment/Decrement or specific scenes?

Does your FC allow setting the data values for CC on and off?
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You can assign the CC value and range (0 - 127).
For a momentary switch I never touched the range.
Functionality for latching and momentary are reversed,
 
I don’t know about the FC-300, but I have an FC-200. If I set one of its switches to. Monetary, it sends an On message when I stomp it and an Off message when I release it. That’s two messages, so that would be received as two increments.

MIDI Controllers don’t send a continual stream of On or Off messages. They only send a message when the state of a switch changes. So there’s no way for a device like the Axe-Fx to tell what the current state of a MIDI-connected switch is. It only sees the switch when the switch’s state changes. So for something like scene increment, it makes sense that the switch needs to be set up as latching.
 
Rex said:
I don’t know about the FC-300, but I have an FC-200. If I set one of its switches to. Monetary, it sends an On message when I stomp it and an Off message when I release it. That’s two messages, so that would be received as two increments.

MIDI Controllers don’t send a continual stream of On or Off messages. They only send a message when the state of a switch changes. So there’s no way for a device like the Axe-Fx to tell what the current state of a MIDI-connected switch is. It only sees the switch when the switch’s state changes. So for something like scene increment, it makes sense that the switch needs to be set up as latching.
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Doesn't the II work the same way as the III as to midi?
 
So if I understand, you're trying to temporarily change scenes. You wouldn't send ON/OFF messages, you would send two ON messages; on to the scene you want to temporarily switch to while the button is depressed, and then another ON message to revert to the scene you were on prior to the press, to be activated as you release the pedal. Am I in the neighborhood here? Because, as has been stated above, the Axe III does not have any sort of "OFF" function for scenes; but if you're in a preset, you're in a scene.

So it would just be a matter of programming the release of the button with the ON of the scene you started with. There isn't a way to do that in the Axe, that I'm aware of, but your MIDI controller might have the capability of recalling that info. For instance, if Scene 1 was your default, and you wanted to go to scene 4 temporarily, you'd program the pedal ON Scene 4 (when depressed), and ON Scene 1 (when released). I don't know a way to do this if you were on scene 3 and you wanted to use the same switch to go temporarily to Scene 4 and then back to 3 - unless you programmed another switch for it, since it was already programmed to go back to Scene 1.
 
slinky005 said:
Doesn't the II work the same way as the III as to midi?
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AFAIK, yes. MIDI-connected momentary switches work just as you’d expect if you’re doing something like bypassing a block, but it gets weird with increment-type functions, where the machine is responding to every message, because the momentary switch sends two messages for every stomp/release..
 
FWIW, OP, this is one of the reasons I'm getting the UnO chip for my FCB1010 - I can do just about everything I need with the stock chip, but that momentary functionality that the stock firmware lacks will be well worth it. Good luck!
 
Rex said:
AFAIK, yes. MIDI-connected momentary switches work just as you’d expect if you’re doing something like bypassing a block, but it gets weird with increment-type functions, where the machine is responding to every message, because the momentary switch sends two messages for every stomp/release..
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This is why I’ve been an advocate for giving the Axe a mode that responds only to non-zero CC values (a sort of “toggle” function).
 
I can still do what I need to do (first world problems) - I was just trying to understand why it is different than the II.
 
I programmed my controller for momentary switch to change scenes. I did not like it because, sometime I use more than 2 scenes.
So I programmed 2 buttons, (one up and one down) to change scenes. Let's say I start with scene 1 and want to move to scene 2, 3, 4 etc. I step on the up programmed button to get to the next scene and down button to go back. This can be implemented for channels as well.
 
Tommy Tempest said:
I programmed my controller for momentary switch to change scenes. I did not like it because, sometime I use more than 2 scenes.
So I programmed 2 buttons, (one up and one down) to change scenes. Let's say I start with scene 1 and want to move to scene 2, 3, 4 etc. I step on the up programmed button to get to the next scene and down button to go back. This can be implemented for channels as well.
Click to expand...
Works for me as well except I need to have my pedal setup as latch for some reason.
 
I started with Scene increment/decrement buttons, but now I'm a bit more sophisticated. I'm using the FCB1010 which has 10 buttons. BUttons 1-4 are patches. Button 5 turns on/off the overdrive in all the patches. Button 10 is the tuner on/off.

Buttons 6-9 are where the magic happens. I essentially have two versions of 4 scenes; one more stereo/effected than the other. So I have it set up so that I step on button 6 and it goes to scene 1. I step on it again and it goes to scene 5. It'll keep toggling between the two scenes. same thing with buttons 7, 8, and 9.

I'm loving the freedom MIDI gives me with this amazing processor!
 
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