MOAEE - Electric Mistress Flanger

You are correct spx90 the Hartman is 9vdc not 18 but it does have excellent headroom despite that fact and nails the mistress tone for me.
 
Hello geetarman,
You have the best clone, made to emulate the E.H.Mistress ;)
But no longer available today ... :(
keep it tight, until FAS does not reproduce the sound faithful Mistress, consolidated inside AXE :D:cool::D
 
DLC86 said:
I'm resurrecting this thread because I took a look at the schematic of this pedal and at how mine works, and I think there are a few mistakes in javajunkie's block (but I may be wrong)
First, the electric mistress from what I see has an inverted phase feedback path, so negative feedback values should be used on the axe fx.
Second, the LFO waveform, from what I and other guys on diystompboxes forum have measured (on non-deluxe mistress at least), is hypertriangular, that means that on the lower half of the wave it appears as a sine wave while on the upper half it seems triangular. I think that we can get close by selecting log or exp (I don't remember atm) on the afx.
Third, the SAD1024 chip has two delay lines one of which has 1 more stage (513 instead of 512) and so it outputs a second signal slightly delayed by about 0.002 to 0.025 ms (depends on the clock frequency). I believe this can't be simulated exactly on the axe but a very similar result can be achieved by setting LFO phase parameter at 0.3 or 0.4 degrees.
I'd like to hear your opinion on this javajunkie (or anyone else who knows what we are talking about), I'll also post my block as I get home so that everyone can try it. Bye!
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Good catch on the negative feedback. On the deluxe I measured, it was a pretty even triangle wave. I measured by sending clicks to the mistress and measuring the delay time differences between the dry signal and fully wet signal and plotting it out on a graph.
I don't think the the exp or log sounded as similar as the triangle.
 
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javajunkie said:
Good catch on the negative feedback. On the deluxe I measured, it was a pretty even triangle wave. I measured by sending clicks to the mistress and measuring the delay time differences between the dry signal and fully wet signal and plotting it out on a graph.
I don't think the the exp or log sounded as similar as the triangle.
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Hi JavaJunkie - do you have any plans to revisit the blocks you posted to emulate this wonderful stomp box? I remember spending some time figuring out how to get it all working, but by the time the penny dropped, a new firmware that completely reworked the flanger block was released and I could never manage to get it sounding quite as good as your audio clips. Or is there a setting / update that I've missed?
 
javajunkie said:
Good catch on the negative feedback. On the deluxe I measured, it was a pretty even triangle wave. I measured by sending clicks to the mistress and measuring the delay time differences between the dry signal and fully wet signal and plotting it out on a graph.
I don't think the the exp or log sounded as similar as the triangle.
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Yes, probably the deluxe version puts out a straight triangle waveform since it has a different LFO implementation. The 9v version (v5) waveform is sort of halfway between a triangle and a logarithmic wave so neither of those is 100% correct.
 
Have you tried lowering LFO hi cut paramter w/ a log waveform. It ought to ramp up expontentially but not get as peaky at the top of the wave form?
 
javajunkie said:
Have you tried lowering LFO hi cut paramter w/ a log waveform. It ought to ramp up expontentially but not get as peaky at the top of the wave form?
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Yes, that's what I've done, I've set it at around 12-13 Hz if I remember correctly, it really helps especially at high rates, but still not 100% there..
I think the problem is that with a log waveform the "sweep" stays on the low side a bit too long, while with the triangular wave it's too short. I think I could match it if the flanger lfo had a duty cycle control.
Just splitting hairs anyway :-D
 
DLC86 said:
Yes, that's what I've done, I've set it at around 12-13 Hz if I remember correctly, it really helps especially at high rates, but still not 100% there..
I think the problem is that with a log waveform the "sweep" stays on the low side a bit too long, while with the triangular wave it's too short. I think I could match it if the flanger lfo had a duty cycle control.
Just splitting hairs anyway :-D
Click to expand...

The LFO in the controller section has a Duty Cycle, but no LFO Hi Cut.
 
aPeRSon said:
Hi JavaJunkie - do you have any plans to revisit the blocks you posted to emulate this wonderful stomp box? I remember spending some time figuring out how to get it all working, but by the time the penny dropped, a new firmware that completely reworked the flanger block was released and I could never manage to get it sounding quite as good as your audio clips. Or is there a setting / update that I've missed?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the flanger really changed since I did those patches. If I have some time, I may try to rework them.
 
javajunkie said:
Yeah, the flanger really changed since I did those patches. If I have some time, I may try to rework them.
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That would be awesome Amigo!

I have been struggling ever since Cliff re-did the Flanger block to re-create and nail the "In City Dreams" and "Caravan to Midnight" style Electronic Harmonix Trower variations of flangers (some chorus-y, some more double-track-like, then add that gurgle with the feedback high). Trower used two of them on his pedal boards. I am getting close but something is never quite right, either in the sweep range and sweep shape, or the feedback/depth.

It would be cool if someone could map out the three EHMistress controls/parameters to the Axe FX Flanger block so we could get close to start based on visual settings of where pedal knobs were....
 
javajunkie said:
Yeah, the flanger really changed since I did those patches. If I have some time, I may try to rework them.
Click to expand...

I found this thread around the time I bought my first Axe-FX (a II XL) back in February or thereabouts. Very few pedals have consistently been on my pedalboard for the last 20 years or so, but I've had a Deluxe Electric Mistress of one type or another since about 1996. My biggest concern with using DSP to achieve my favourite sounds was whether I could get close to the EH DEM - I have a '77 ish version on the board, and a '79 ish version as a backup (cannot remember exact years, only get to find out when replacing mains transformers ;)).

So far I have only worked with JJ's original block (using a controller for the LFO), and it's pretty good. Have to go a little over 50% with the feedback to get the full "jet plane landing" fuzz tones, and there's something not quite as "chewy" sounding as the original effect, but it's definitely a good substitute, which has really cheered me up!

Thanks to all that have contributed to the thread over the years. JJ, if you get the chance to look into this again I will be so chuffed. I'm going to spend time working with other suggestions from this thread in the meantime!

Liam
 
DLC86 said:
Hi, sorry but yesterday I've been busy and couldn't post the block, here it is
I corrected a few things too, the lfo phase should vary in relation to the rate parameter, according to my calculations lfo phase should be set lower than how it's set in the block to be authentic, but by ear I preferred it this way.
In the x/y I've set them at min and max, the same goes for the feedback and depth compared to my unit.
I'm also not 100% sure about HP and LP filters, I've set them by ear comparing it to the pedal too.
Let me know what you think!
Click to expand...

As an EHEM fan for many years, I have to say that is pretty special. The physical units I have owned over the years have varied somewhat, but this is up there with the better ones. Spent the evening comparing JJ's first take with this, and it's definitely an improvement on an incredibly authentic tone. Thanks!

Liam
 
javajunkie said:
The LFO in the controller section has a Duty Cycle, but no LFO Hi Cut.
Click to expand...
If you apply damping between the LFO and the parameter, that's sort of the same thing, right?
Or, just use the sequencer to "carve" the LFO shape you want.
 
I had 2 over the years. The magic was in the dirt they added. Nothin like that Red Barchetta tone. Problem is Fractal is too clean. Well not a problem at all. Just be creative and create something new. Onward
 
javajunkie said:
EHX Electric Mistress

First sold in 1976, the Electric Mistress Flanger has certainly made its mark in guitar effects history. The two most popular variants of the Electric Mistress Line were the standard Electric Mistress and the Deluxe Electric Mistress. The Deluxe had an internal power supply (no batteries), a wider range of settings and fixed a volume drop affected early Mistress's. The one compared here is a version 2 of the Deluxe Electric Mistress. My unit is very old and has a ton of self noise. The difference between the Axe-fx portion of the sound clips and the real thing should be quite apparent due to this.

Here is a brief description of the various control from the Mistress manual:

FLANGER MODE:
The flanging effect can be thought of as a pitch slowly sweeping between high and low limits superimposed on the guitar signal. The RATE control allows you to change the rate at which the effect occurs. With the RATE control fully counter-clockwise, the effect occurs at the slowest rate. Turning the dial clockwise increases the rate to the point where the frequency of the input signal appears to be shifted in a vibrato-like fashion.
The RANGE control allows you to set the lower limit of the sweep. Fully counter-clockwise settings, where the lower limit is just below the higher, creates a very narrow sweeping effect. Turning the RATE control clockwise lowers the low limit so that the sweep extends further into the bass. In general, a faster rate (more cw) call for a narrower range setting (more ccw). A convincing rotating speaker effect may be obtained by setting the rate near maximum, the range near minimum, and the color approximately half-way.
FILTER MATRIX MODE:
Pushing the slide switch into the FILTER MATRIX mode disengages the RATE control. The RANGE control will now manually adjust the filter matrix. Proper manipulation of the range and the COLOR controls will enable you to simulate the sound of chimes being played in unison with your instrument, as well as many other effects.
The DELUXE ELECTRIC MISTRESS has been set at the factory for maximum color capacity in the FLANGER mode. Setting the COLOR control at its most clockwise point could cause an oscillation noise. This is normal! This oscillation may be reduced by a slight reduction of the COLOR control.

Comparing this to the parameters we have available on the Axe-fx II:
Rate = Rate
Range = Depth
Color = Feedback

As has been said, putting the Mistress into Matrix Mode disengages the Rate control. This means no modulation of the delay time. Turn the depth time to 0 to do this on the Axe-fx.


From my measurements the Electric Mistress uses a very straight forward triangle waveform. I have been told by another person that there unit exhibited a rounding at the top of the triangle on their unit.



On my unit at full depth the delay time goes from ~.8 - 6ms in normal mode
In Matrix mode the delay times go from ~1-10ms

The range on my Deluxe Mistress go from ~ .07 - 10hz. It is hard to tell at highest speed because the oscillation becomes total unstable at extremely high values. It is actually a very cool effect actually (like the voltage drain/charge can't keep up). It is similar to "No Quarter."

Maximum feedback on the Mistress = ~50% on the Axe-fx II.

Also, with flanged and direct outs. It looks like the mix is still 50/50 on the flanged out but the direct out is 180 degrees out of phase with flanged out and is (of course) dry.


I am publishing the examples as blocks rather than presets. The Normal mode will also need the Controller block as well as the Flanger block to work correctly. I can get a more precise delay min/max using the LFO in the Controller as compared to the Depth parameter.

The Matrix mode doesn't sweep so that is not needed. Turn the delay time and feedback in the flanger up or down to tune the comb filtering.

I could have dialed this in closer by using EQ before the flanger, but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible for maximum portability. This one isn't as close as I would like and I may revisit it.

Here is a comparison of the Normal Mode:

Here is a comparison of the Matrix Mode (note the resonances are almost impossible to match up for comaprison purposes even the smallest change in delay time alters the sound - Just tune the delay time where you want it):


Here are the blocks:
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/JJMistressMediumFlanger.blk
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/JJMistressMediumCTRL.blk
http://javajunkiemusic.com/Audio/JJMistressMatrixFlanger.blk

You won't be able to use the blocks until Axe-edit 3.02 is released

This and other effects emulations found here:
Fractal Audio Systems Forum - Recent Blogs Posts - Blogs
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Is there a way to convert blocks to work in the AX8? Tried using the FracTool, but doesn't allow me to drag a .blk file onto it.
 
you don't need to convert blk files....they work in all the different fractal units. it goes on your hard drive in the blocks folder and you recall it via ax8edit
 
Dramelot said:
I had 2 over the years. The magic was in the dirt they added. Nothin like that Red Barchetta tone. Problem is Fractal is too clean. Well not a problem at all. Just be creative and create something new. Onward
Click to expand...

One thing noticed in working with M@ is that the E Mistress and Boss Purple flanger pedals have a full hi cut around 7K, while Fractal defaults allows higher frequencies in Flanger block, so go into the tone part of flanger block and cut those highs back, it may not sound "so clean" once you do that and more like the real deal. Hope that helps!
 
simeon said:
you don't need to convert blk files....they work in all the different fractal units. it goes on your hard drive in the blocks folder and you recall it via ax8edit
Click to expand...
@simeon, when I try to drag the .blk file into AX8-edit it says the block was saved using Axe FX II firmware and is not compatible with the connected devices firmware. Anything else I can do?
 
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