ML MYTHBUSTERS: Mesa Dual Rectifier vs Mesa Road King

ML SOUND LAB

ML SOUND LAB

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It's been five years in the making. I've requested the Road King for the Axe-Fx units for almost a decade and it went as far as comparing schematics with "you know who" and according to them there's no big differences in the amps. According to Mesa the gain channels should be pretty much the same... THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT SOUNDING!



First clip is the Road King II channel 4 with 4x 6L6 (to match my Dual Recto)
Second clip is the exact same settings on the Dual Recto (I have one of the good ones, not the new bad ones)
Third clip is the Dual Recto with it's presence at 0 (on the other clips it was at 12 o'clock)

So even if I pull the presence all the way down on the Dual Rectifier it will have more of that scooped sizzly presence than the Road King. The Road King has REALLY NICE MIDS!! which I can't really get out of the Dual Recto. Closest thing was to use the vintage channel instead and have the middle on full but that sounded different in other ways then.

Opinions? Road King poll? :D
 
Every time I hear the phrase "Road King" I immediately think of early Incubus and Dream Theater's Train of Thought and Octavarium.

Also, I might be one of the only ones who prefers the new Rectos.


Edit: When I mentioned Incubus I was actually thinking of the Trem-O-Verb, but still...another variation on the standard Recto.
 
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Differences in...

transformer?
input filtering?
power amp filtering?
components?
pot values?
preamp power supply?

it doesn't take much left/right on any of that to drastically change the tone and feel...even if the circuit is exactly the same.

haven't had time time play with it yet but creator mentioned some Mark IVs had a cap across one of the something something something...for some reason I'm thinking it's one of the triode plate freq parameters from it's description. Anyways, one little cap across something can change it from smooth Mark IV lead channel to buzzy Mark V lead channel, exact same circuit.

And why r u still surprised an early 3 channel sounds different from a road king?? They're different amps! It's like trying to argue with creator when u get told "you aren't hearing that. It's your imagination." :rolleyes: good work though, I could listen to rectifier comparison clips on repeat for hours.
 
did you mod the loop on your 3 channel or is it still in series? That second clip sounds like the loop leeching signal, phasing. Have you ever tried tapping the fx send and recording just that through the same IR for both amps? To be able to hear just the preamp...

Tbh that third clip sounds identical to the first, regarding the gain structure and breakup. It's probably something as simple as a presence pot taper, or the filter center freq. I bet they don't count filtering as "part of the circuit"...over the decades the "same circuit" is all over the map
 
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i had a roadster. i miss that amp and would use it again in a heartbeat if i had to use real amps for something. definitely something there that's not in the dual recto.
 
chris said:
definitely something there that's not in the dual recto.
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Input filtering, there's more distorted low end and low mids in the Road King, you get more out because it lets more in.

It's hard to tell because with tubes being driven that hard, extra low end eats up the bandwidth and effects the highs too, gives them less available energy so they get smeared a little bit and it might sound like some voodoo boutique magic...same way the bass knob on a dual rec actually adds high end going from 4 to 6 o clock (???)...but I bet if you filtered off some low end from the Road King input it would open up the top just like how the dual rec sounds.
 
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ML SOUND LAB said:
It's been five years in the making. I've requested the Road King for the Axe-Fx units for almost a decade and it went as far as comparing schematics with "you know who" and according to them there's no big differences in the amps. According to Mesa the gain channels should be pretty much the same... THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT SOUNDING!

Opinions? Road King poll? :D
Click to expand...

I sold my RKII head and regretted it, later buying a 2x12 combo that I still enjoy. I put two Altec 417-H speakers in it, chasing early Santana tones. It’s a great amp, but the weight alone (especially with the Altecs installed) would keep me from gigging with it! The RKII has a distinctly different sound, especially clean, even from the RKI. Not sure why.

Not for the old “one volume with a tone knob” amp aficionados, but as high tech as I’ve seen a tube amp that had many usable sounds in it.
 
I'm very happy to see the Road King love in here! Using them side by side it's very clear that they're very different in many ways. Every knob works differently. Road King has less gain than my Dual Recto. The presence knob is the biggest difference with the Dual Recto being more brighter than the Road King while Dual has presence at 0 and Road King has it at noon. Literally have to have the mid knob at full on the Dual to be comparable to the Road King. One thing that I do prefer on the Dual however is that it's a bit punchier which might be the middle scoop for all I know.
 
Nice comparison! I used a Road King on the very first release I was ever on and struggled a bit with it at the time. I ended up re-recording a lot of the tracks with an old JMP era Marshall which suited the vibe a lot more before trying a Roadster for one song on the last Ragdoll album; I liked it so much I went and bought an old Recto which I liked even more.

Listening to this makes it immediately apparent how sizzly the Recto is! For anyone who wants to listen to the difference I was talking about (tooting my own horn here).

Road King



Same song with the JMP



Roadster



Rev G Recto

 
Man that last song is good Leon! Really good stuff. Definitely agree that on the first song the JMP suited the song much better. On the other two songs I believe the JMP wouldn't have suited them as well. I've also owned a Roadster and my band's guitarist had the Rev G at one point. This clip makes me GAS for that Rev G pretty badly. :D

I don't know what it is but for some reason Ragdoll sounds like the Australian version of the Swedish band Freak Kitchen.
 
A roadster and a Rev G together must have been HUGE :D

Funny you mention Freak Kitchen; they're virtually unknown down here (which isn't surprising) but we had lots of people compare us to them when we toured Europe. Mattias is a truly one of a kind player!
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
Man that last song is good Leon! Really good stuff. Definitely agree that on the first song the JMP suited the song much better. On the other two songs I believe the JMP wouldn't have suited them as well. I've also owned a Roadster and my band's guitarist had the Rev G at one point. This clip makes me GAS for that Rev G pretty badly. :D

I don't know what it is but for some reason Ragdoll sounds like the Australian version of the Swedish band Freak Kitchen.
Click to expand...
Mattias is the bomb! Insanely talented!
 
I keep coming back to this thread to listen to this clip. At this point I'm convinced that the Road King is probably the epitome of guitar tone, at least for my tastes. Pretty much every time I hear someone say the word "Rectifier" I'm really hearing that kind of tone in my head instead of your standard Dual/Tripple/whatever. To me it kinda sounds like a Recto and a Mark combined.

What kind of cab and mics did you use with this clip?
 
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