Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV1500)

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
I had the pleasure of going over to a buddy's house (Paul) yesterday because he's got the itch for an Axe-fx Ultra and wanted to check mine out compared to his setup... as I mentioned he has a Peavey 5150 and ENGL SE with the MXR Zakk Wylde OD into both amps... his setup sounded awesome into his two identically setup Mills cabs with V30/G12K-100 in X-Pattern... I wish I would have had some time to take my two Marshall cabs with G12T-75's to compare. Paul told me that he installed a $40 German pre-amp tube that adds low end girth to both his amps... he said it's a simple mod that makes the amps sound much “meatier”.

Well, he proceeded to plug in his Les Paul Custom with EMG 81(b)/85(n) that sounded awesome! We were talking about string gauges as well and it turns out he is running .68's for the same tuning that I tune to (Dropped Bb)... crazy!!! I need to look into that because the .60 is just not cutting it anymore for me.

Anyhow... he plugged in and I was impressed with the sound of his setup, but I heard a sort of low end girth rumble that I've never heard in my Axe-fx setup so I started talking to him about it and he said he was just used to the sound... I wondered if that was what "tube amp feel" is? He played for a bit and then we switched the connections to plug in the Axe-fx/PV1500 and using my live distortion patch (Das Metall) we instantly noticed that the Axe-fx didn't have this low end girth rumble at all... it had the mids and none of the high end sizzle that I've come to notice on both of my experiences when comparing to tube amps. I looked at his settings and noticed that he had the presence set almost to full (9)!!! Paul wanted to try out a dual amp rig (in the Axe-fx) so I looked to find a dual rig patch and setup the VH4 (Das Metall) and Rectifier (New Recto) and it sounded just "ok"... I was blown away as to how much better his rig sounded that the Axe-fx. Listening to his setup I started thinking about how I really wanted to get a 5150 now because it just sounded killer! I didn’t even bother to look at the ENGL SE because it’s way out of my price range if I want to keep the Axe-fx.

So, just as I was about to say that I had to leave to practice (in a defeated stupor), I got the idea that I wanted to hear the 5150 by itself and try to mimic the 5150 with the Axe-fx's 5150 amp sim by dialing it up exactly as his amp's settings... Peavey on the left and the Axe-fx on the right so we can A/B directly... on first try it sounded close but the low end wasn't there... and surprisingly some of the great presence sizzle WAS there... not all, but some. I really like this tube amp presence sizzle that tube amps have and for whatever reason I’ve never heard with my Axe-fx. I had him play a couple of riffs while I adjusted it and much to my surprise I got veeeeery close by following Cliff's age old advise "turn down that damn master!!!" So I had the master set to about 2.5 and the level up to about 12.00 (which just never looks right to me but damn it if it didn't sound so awesome!!!) We had it sounding very similar except for a bit of mid-range growl that was in the 5150 that wasn't in the Axe-fx, so I got the idea to pop in a GEQ and kicked up the lows a bit and the mids up a bit (especially at 1k) and bam!!! We had the Axe-fx sounding BETTER than the 5150!!!! Crazy!!! But as I said, that tube presence sizzle was missing a bit.

Only thing I didn't like was that the Peavey 1500 (both channels dimed) was lighting up like a Christmas tree with its red LED's on a constant red along with the Axe-fx's output... I sure do wish we had a brick wall limiter (?:1 instead of just 20:1) but that's for another post.

In the past I had purchased a Carvin TS100 tube power amp that had a defective channel, so I've run 50-watts of tube power and it definitely was nowhere near as loud as I need for practice... not even close. But this Peavey 5150 at 100-watts of tube power was making mincemeat of my 500-watts per channel SS power amp at almost full power with all kinds of warning lights telling me to turn it down... all this and the 5150 was only running the output at about 1 o'clock!!!! Crazy!!!

One thing I did notice was that when I turned down the presence on his amps (to zero), they sounded very similar to the Axe-fx’s amp sims… so what I like in an amp is the high end presence sizzle… but as I said, for whatever reason I’ve never been able to get in the Axe-fx, I need to play with that a bit…

So in the end, Paul now has GAS for an Axe-fx Ultra... and I have GAS for the power amp section of a 5150... :lol:
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

Are you on the current firmware? I love top end sizzle too and I get plenty of it out of the Axe. I hardly ever have the presence over five (with the JCM 800 and D60 models mostly). I've noticed the lower-mid thing too sometimes but like you said a little GEQ does wonders.
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

I can see the future. And the future is that this thread will evolve into "amp in the room" versus "mic'd" discussion.
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

yek said:
I can see the future. And the future is that this thread will evolve into "amp in the room" versus "mic'd" discussion.
I might have misunderstood, but I think mortega76 is running into a guitar cab so hopefully your prognostication is wrong. :lol:
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

Really?!
I predict that I'm gonna say: my bad.

My bad.
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

:lol: You guys rock!

All of this was done using real cabs... bypassing the cabs globally...

marshall2553: Yes, I'm on the latest (non MFC101 related) firmware 10.01
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

mortega76 said:
Only thing I didn't like was that the Peavey 1500 (both channels dimed) was lighting up like a Christmas tree with its red LED's on a constant red along with the Axe-fx's output... I sure do wish we had a brick wall limiter (?:1 instead of just 20:1) but that's for another post.
If you were driving the power amp into self-limit, you were losing at least some of the "tube sizzle" specifically because of that.

But this Peavey 5150 at 100-watts of tube power was making mincemeat of my 500-watts per channel SS power amp at almost full power
It's only going to make 500 watts per channel into a four ohm load. In order to take maximum advantage of its power, you'll have to either use it stereo into two 4-ohm cabs or bridged mono into one 8-ohm cab. You didn't mention what speakers you were playing it through. If you weren't loading it optimally, you could have been getting just over half its available power.

all this and the 5150 was only running the output at about 1 o'clock!!!!
Which is already driving its output stage well into saturation. Turning it up further won't get more volume, it will just make more compression and dirt.
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

Jay Mitchell said:
mortega76 said:
Only thing I didn't like was that the Peavey 1500 (both channels dimed) was lighting up like a Christmas tree with its red LED's on a constant red along with the Axe-fx's output... I sure do wish we had a brick wall limiter (?:1 instead of just 20:1) but that's for another post.
If you were driving the power amp into self-limit, you were losing at least some of the "tube sizzle" specifically because of that.

But this Peavey 5150 at 100-watts of tube power was making mincemeat of my 500-watts per channel SS power amp at almost full power
It's only going to make 500 watts per channel into a four ohm load. In order to take maximum advantage of its power, you'll have to either use it stereo into two 4-ohm cabs or bridged mono into one 8-ohm cab. You didn't mention what speakers you were playing it through. If you weren't loading it optimally, you could have been getting just over half its available power.

[quote:3slgckqe]all this and the 5150 was only running the output at about 1 o'clock!!!!
Which is already driving its output stage well into saturation. Turning it up further won't get more volume, it will just make more compression and dirt.[/quote:3slgckqe]
I forgot to mention that both cabs were 8 Ohm cabs... so they were pushing (max) 300 Watts... and it still wasn't as loud as the 5150's tube power amp section... you are also correct on the "self limiting"... the PV1500 had "Peavey's patented DDT distortion detection technique" enabled. I've only disabled it once and if I remember correctly it "farted" a bit at max level when I cranked it at practice... man, I hate the fact that I'm going to have to get another power amp running at least 1000 Watts!!! Thanks for the info on the "sizzle"... I'll try it again with DDT disabled.

The next one up is the PV2600 which gives the following specs...

Stereo Mode: 4 Ohms: 900 Watts RMS x 2
Stereo Mode: 8 Ohms: 540 Watts RMS x 2
Bridge Mode-Mono: 8 Ohms: 1800 Watts RMS

That's a lot of juice just to power two 300 Watt cabs... Paul's Mill's cabs were running 8 Ohm, but my Marshall cabs run 4 or 16 Ohm (mono) and I plug it into the 4 Ohm jack... so on my setup, I'm running it at 500 Watts... damn... wouldn't 500 Watts be the equivalent of a 100 Watt tube amp? (or maybe I'm remembering incorrectly)
 
Re: Mini Amp fest with Peavey 5150, ENGL SE and Axe-fx (PV15

mortega76 said:
I'll try it again with DDT disabled.
You'll still have to keep from overdriving it, otherwise you'll get some nasty-sounding clipping.

wouldn't 500 Watts be the equivalent of a 100 Watt tube amp?
Should be. If all else is equal - IOW, the sensitivities of the speakers are the same - you should be able to match the volume from a 100W tube amp with a 500W ss one.
 
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