Might be forced to try something new....

I know this is the wrong forum for this but I would still prefer to use amps even though I have an AX8. The AX8 is definitely the closest I've heard to running an amp direct.

Previously I was running klon ktr > timmy > timeline > big sky into a star nova 15r and a black cat 30r through iso cabs with vintage 30s. While I was still using in ears with amps it was still the best tone/feel in my opinion.

Now I certainly wouldn't judge the tone/feel of what everyone hears through FOH. I'm 110% sure the AX8 is a much more consistent solution for electric guitar. Matchless/bad cat type amps burn through tubes very quickly and heaven forbid someone mess up the mic placement someone spent time eq'ing!

The AX8 running direct out via XLR saves me a lot of setup time especially going stereo so the minor trade off in tone/feel is worth it.
 
Back on topic...

I've used the Axe as a front end to a flesh-and-blood amp. It works great—better than a board full of pedals, IMO.

On the other hand, after two gigs, you'll have more experience running it that way than I have. I just prefer to run direct.
 
Back on topic...

I've used the Axe as a front end to a flesh-and-blood amp. It works great—better than a board full of pedals, IMO.

On the other hand, after two gigs, you'll have more experience running it that way than I have. I just prefer to run direct.
well i do as well but like I said, i feel like as a leader i need to fall in line with what I'm asking of everyone else.

i'm actually looking forward to trying it this way...my only concern is with tube amps i like to run them edge of breakup...might have to do some tweaking to get my fx to sit correctly.

also, i run some fx in parallel when going direct...probably better to just build everything out in series for this application, huh?
 
well i do as well but like I said, i feel like as a leader i need to fall in line with what I'm asking of everyone else.
No worries. My point was that my experience running it this way is limited, so take my comments accordingly.


also, i run some fx in parallel when going direct...probably better to just build everything out in series for this application, huh?
Try it both ways, and see what you like.
 
Gotta ask...

You say you're essentially the leader of the rest of the guitarists, so I have to imagine your input was sought on what to use as back line amps. I can also understand why you wouldn't want to suggest a trio of AxeFx's for reasons you've already stated, plus it's a new thing people (including soundmen) would have to learn and so on...

Why 3 Matchless'? I mean, you couldn't have picked a better amp, especially for p&w, but wouldn't it have made sense to have at least a little tonal variety? Say, a DC30, a Zwreck, and maybe a Badcat or something?
 
Also, FWIW, I would not switch to running your effects in series. If you go straight in (or 4cm for that matter) you're probably going to want to sum mono anyhow, but running parallel let's you, for example, set a delay 100% wet, then use the level control to bring down actual decibel values... my delays are almost always -6dB, but I have no idea what that translates to as a wet %.
 
Gotta ask...

You say you're essentially the leader of the rest of the guitarists, so I have to imagine your input was sought on what to use as back line amps. I can also understand why you wouldn't want to suggest a trio of AxeFx's for reasons you've already stated, plus it's a new thing people (including soundmen) would have to learn and so on...

Why 3 Matchless'? I mean, you couldn't have picked a better amp, especially for p&w, but wouldn't it have made sense to have at least a little tonal variety? Say, a DC30, a Zwreck, and maybe a Badcat or something?
we talked about it and even though it may be better to have some variety, we thought it best to offer the same amps to keep guys from having preferences and then trying to decide which guy gets the amp he and another want to play. sure, take turns, schedule, etc...but that just adds a layer of oversight that's easier to deal with by removing altogether.
there will def be enough variety in tones just in the way guys set them, which channels they use and the pedals on their boards that i'm not too worried about overlap. i mean, most guys are playing boutique AC circuits anyway, how different can they be??? lol
 
we talked about it and even though it may be better to have some variety, we thought it best to offer the same amps to keep guys from having preferences and then trying to decide which guy gets the amp he and another want to play. sure, take turns, schedule, etc...but that just adds a layer of oversight that's easier to deal with by removing altogether.
there will def be enough variety in tones just in the way guys set them, which channels they use and the pedals on their boards that i'm not too worried about overlap. i mean, most guys are playing boutique AC circuits anyway, how different can they be??? lol
That's a good point. My guess was there was a hiarchy or rank structure in place... new guy gets last pick or whatever, but yeah, pedals & different guitars will make some difference.

I do kind of foresee one of you just killing it and the other players attempting to replicate that person's settings, or maybe one of the sound guys spreads word to the others "hey try this..."

I don't suppose it's all that different from any old band where both guitarists happen to have 5150's or whatever, you sculpt do everyone sits in the mix. Mic choices or even loading different speakers down the road can give you that too... maybe load one with alnicos and designate it for the shimmer reverb cleans guy?
 
Come to think of it, it was an old rolling Stones trick to try and make all the guitars sound as similar as possible to sound double tracked.
 
That's a good point. My guess was there was a hiarchy or rank structure in place... new guy gets last pick or whatever, but yeah, pedals & different guitars will make some difference.

I do kind of foresee one of you just killing it and the other players attempting to replicate that person's settings, or maybe one of the sound guys spreads word to the others "hey try this..."

I don't suppose it's all that different from any old band where both guitarists happen to have 5150's or whatever, you sculpt do everyone sits in the mix. Mic choices or even loading different speakers down the road can give you that too... maybe load one with alnicos and designate it for the shimmer reverb cleans guy?
a good example is i actually have one of our guys' Matchless Lightning here at my house right now. He was out of the country and we had to tear down so i hauled it home to keep for him. I plugged in tonight at his settings, which given it's layout (Volume/Tone/Master) are pretty basic, and wasn't overly impressed. Thin and sort of anemic. I then set it how I would, especially given it's a 15 matter, and it came alive. Timed the volume and the master, set the tone control then used guitar volume and pickup selection....it was like a totally different amp. I think a persons musical personality will shine through no matter what...assuming they have one.

That's why all the 80's guys recorded through the same modded Marshall or ADA back in the day and still sound very unique. I mean, if memory serves, legend says the Lynch and Slash both used the same mystical Marshall head to record with....and i can't think of two guys with more dissimilar tones from the same era/genre.
 
Having the Axe Fx in front (pre amp) of the matchless will work, but you need to have amp and cab modling off which means that ALL stomps / effects will run before the pre amp of the matchless.

if you use axe fx as pre amp (putting it directly to power tube amp of the matchless) you are flexible of where you will put the stomps / effects. As especially reverbs, delays, chorus will sound better after pre amp.

And so far no-one reacts who uses its axe fx in front, so there seems not to be many using it this way.

My suggestion is use axe fx as preamp and put it in matchless return
 
Having the Axe Fx in front (pre amp) of the matchless will work, but you need to have amp and cab modling off which means that ALL stomps / effects will run before the pre amp of the matchless.

if you use axe fx as pre amp (putting it directly to power tube amp of the matchless) you are flexible of where you will put the stomps / effects. As especially reverbs, delays, chorus will sound better after pre amp.

And so far no-one reacts who uses its axe fx in front, so there seems not to be many using it this way.

My suggestion is use axe fx as preamp and put it in matchless return
oh yeah, i know the how to's of everything, i've been using the Axe for a long time...just wanted to hear feedback from those that had ran it this way. definitely going to try it as fx only in front first.
 
I'll be interested to hear how this goes for you jlynnb1. I've been using the Axe FX for a few years now, but not to the extent you've been using in that environment. I came from using vintage amps (still have a few) for many years, so I know that world well. I've yet though to run the Axe FX into any of them- I've been meaning to for quite a while, but I still keep those two approaches separate. I still have a couple of pedal boards wired up and like to use them into my amps sometimes.. or I use the Axe FX into a pair of CLRs as a full on modeling rig. One or the other so far.. I'm interested to hear how well this works for you running direct into a backline at any rate. I will say that I love playing through a good Matchless (had a SC30 head briefly back in the mid 90's) so I bet you'll enjoy that.
 
First of all, so glad to hear that you guy's are going with a "backline"
For me, that breathes life back into the term "live music".
I got tired of the IEM's and wedges for everyone. A real pain to get everyone dialed in with so many rotating players and singers.
Everyone wanted to sound like a concert, but the constraint of 85~88dB in the house would not allow that to be possible.
IMHO, the set up would be easier with guy's bringing their pedal boards, using house amps and mics.

Our house (16H x 70W x 55D) uses a pair of big EAW's and JBL subs. 4 floor wedges, and drummer in a mic'd up box.
So we can get loud..(like it should be) (95~ 105dB weighted)

From the sound desk perspective, I find it difficult to have to train different guitarist every Sunday on how to make the AXE work.
I just ran sound this past Sunday, and let one of the guitarist use my rig that I left set up from the previous Sunday, he was just totally lost.
Having to keep showing him what to do took all of my time during sound check.
I rotate into the band and the sound desk from week to week.
The Axe could possibly be too challenging for some non-pro players to deal with in a last minute scenario.
My 20+ years experience has been most church players I have worked with are last minute, and ill prepared.
 
My 20+ years experience has been most church players I have worked with are last minute, and ill prepared.

From everything I've read about church playing, I was under the impression that folks play at the same venue all the time. How can you be inexperienced with the same setup every day (week, or however often that happens).

Also, I can't pretend to know what you guys play there but if I tried to guess, that should be something with lots of ambient effects and such. Are you seriously saying that these are easy to dial with people coming with random pedalboards plugging into amps?
 
Having to keep showing him what to do took all of my time during sound check.
I rotate into the band and the sound desk from week to week.
The Axe could possibly be too challenging for some non-pro players to deal with in a last minute scenario.

I did lend my rig to a guitar player from another band during a festival, to minimize setup time for ourselves once. It took me like one minute to explain everything. Maybe even less. I selected a generic preset where scenes changes from clean to overdrive to high gain rhythm to lead to lead with lots of chorus/flanger. Those scenes are labeled clearly on my MFC.

If I had a real pedalboard, he'd have a lot harder time to figure it out.

Oh, and I remember that plugging my own pedalboard into random amps and cabs wasn't all easy or reliable.

So my point is, there's nothing intrinsically difficult in the Axe FX if you set it up to be easy.
 
I did lend my rig to a guitar player from another band during a festival, to minimize setup time for ourselves once. It took me like one minute to explain everything. Maybe even less. I selected a generic preset where scenes changes from clean to overdrive to high gain rhythm to lead to lead with lots of chorus/flanger. Those scenes are labeled clearly on my MFC.

If I had a real pedalboard, he'd have a lot harder time to figure it out.

Oh, and I remember that plugging my own pedalboard into random amps and cabs wasn't all easy or reliable.

So my point is, there's nothing intrinsically difficult in the Axe FX if you set it up to be easy.
one preset doesn't really work for what we do...i program a different one for each to account for fx levels, od needs, etc. we have 7-10 guitar players, about to add a few more. it's easier to go with what they know and can plug into and immediately have their tones than having to teach them how to navigate the unit, edit, save, etc on the fly.

also, them all having their own boards makes it very easy for them to plug in and have their tones almost instantly....i'm not sure why it would seem counterintuitive.
 
Going back to the original question, I have run the axe straight into a 3rd Power British Dream on the Vox side. It sounds great, but it depends on your expectations. I replicated the same sounds I got with my traditional pedal board with the same setup. There wasn't much difference. The only difference being that a few pedals have been my favorites for years and they always have that magic going for me. Delays / time efx have a certain sound before the amp...and you have to expect that...Axe Fx or no axe Fx.

Next point: related to easy of use to non Axe fx users playing an Axe rig. I have provided 2 rigs to local battle of the bands etc. One analog / 1 Axe Rig. All the guitar plays that used the Axe fx only needed about 30 seconds of instruction. I had about 10 presets spanning Classic rock, pop,punk, hard rock, blues, Metalicay metal. Then I had 5 or so scenes labeled. One guy put his time pedals thru the loop. It was pretty easy. All they had to do was choose the 5 scenes. So it is possible to be easy, especially if you plan ahead for the types of tones needed. It could be hard too if the players needed to tweak stuff that I hadn't thought about. Or if they had way dissimilar guitars than I had.
 
Additionally, effect settings are probably to personal unless you did a lot of planning....thinking delays / reverbs / time etc. It is probably easier letting them use their own boards. But as far as just how the axe works that way...I say its great. Logistics in your case might be better for personal boards.
 
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