Might be forced to try something new....

craiguitar said:
Couple of things seem alien to me reading this thread. Firstly anyone playing an electric guitar in a church. Athough I did know a guy who played a gig in a church once with his Pink Floyd tribute band (also accompanied by some strings). Seems like a nice idea in theory, but by all accounts it was horrendous. Unless you like cavernous reverb. I suppose US churches are more modern buildings with electricity and heating etc. Secondly, the venue having enough money to splash out on some posh amps for the performers to use. I can't speak for all UK churches as a non-religious type, but I've been in a church or two for various events, and I'm sure you have to bring your own candle so you can see where you're planning to sit and slowly freeze to death. And there certainly won't be any entertainment.
I'd say, let them get the Matchless amps, you could take your axe with a couple of presets set up for 4CM, Cab sims off, I'd think that would work a treat.
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yeah it's very different here. you'd be hard pressed to find a church without a full band, unless they are a denomination that doesn't believe in music in the church (Church of Christ, for instance)

we typically have drums, bass, 2 keys players, acoustic and 3 electric...plus 3-5 singers.
 
brokenvail said:
That is what I thought but are you using iem or using an FRFR. I know you have mentioned it in other posts but don't remember
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IEM's...sometimes i put my CLR on stage pointed away just for fun....and mainly so i can hear myself when i take my ears out and they cut the FOH feed between services, lol.
 
jlynnb1 said:
what will be spent on the amps isn't even a drop in the bucket to what has been given either monetarily or in volunteer service both in our city and globally.
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In that case, can you get them to tack another DC30 onto their order and have it shipped out to my place? I'll PM you my address. ;)
 
I don't think you'll have any issue at all using the AxeFX for effects only. When I first got mine, I played two weekends into our church's backline Vox and it sounded really good. I had some issues gain staging because we aren't allowed to tweak the amps. I also had to tweak effects because I was so used to running 4CM...but I knew I was eventually going to run direct to FOH, so I didn't worry too much about it. If I was going to backline every week, things would have stabilized quickly. I would also have probably captured IRs and tone matches just to help me rehearse and dial stuff in on *my* time instead of our *our* time.

Just gotta say, your backline situation is what it is. I commend you for embracing a change that's out of your control. I've seen too many P&W musicians lose sight of the reason we do what we do.
 
jlynnb1 said:
IEM's...sometimes i put my CLR on stage pointed away just for fun....and mainly so i can hear myself when i take my ears out and they cut the FOH feed between services, lol.
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that is what I thought I remembered. I would skip using the back line and just not take my iem out personally. I would not want to buy an fx8 just because the church bout these back line amps, especially if I already run iem. I would just keep running the IEM. I think it is cool your church bought a back line. Wish more churches considered doing that but for churches that go direct they should just buy 2 or 3 AX8 and call it a day. They would not be disapointed
 
brokenvail said:
that is what I thought I remembered. I would skip using the back line and just not take my iem out personally. I would not want to buy an fx8 just because the church bout these back line amps, especially if I already run iem. I would just keep running the IEM. I think it is cool your church bought a back line. Wish more churches considered doing that but for churches that go direct they should just buy 2 or 3 AX8 and call it a day. They would not be disapointed
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yeah, perfect world the Ax8 is the best solution, but dealing so many moving parts and players it would be impossible to keep presets and stuff sorted...definitely wouldn't be sending them home with 7-10 different guys on a weekly basis...i mean how would that even work? lol

i'm going to use the amps because i'm the guitar lead over all of our guitarists and i can't ask them to do something i'm not willing to do myself....don't think it would send a good message for me to tell all of them they have to use backline and then make an exception for my rig...not matter how well suited it is for the given application.

plus it's always fun to plug into a matchless, lol. i'm sure the Axe will do great...i probably won't run 4cm so it will take some experimenting but it will be fun.
 
brokenvail said:
Wish more churches considered doing that but for churches that go direct they should just buy 2 or 3 AX8 and call it a day. They would not be disapointed
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It's funny - and sorry for digressing - since I've had my AxeFx, I've heard it described in some very non-glowing terms by people who have no idea what it is. They see a "modeler - like a Line 6" (actual quote) and they make up their own mind about what it is before ever hearing it. However, this weekend alone - 4 services - probably close to 4k people, I had three different musicians come up and really compliment my tone - they dig what they *HEAR* and want to know more about how to get it.

What would be interesting would be for churches to backline an AxeFX (or AX8) and treat it like they would a real amp. We use IEMs so put if off stage and run directly to FOH. Don't worry about patches beyond AMP-CAB. Don't worry about MFCs or other midi pedal boards. Each person could just use their own real pedals. You could still standardize on a single amp model but also have so much more flexibility. There may be some small issues, but those problems exist with ANY backline system. Unfortunately, its easier to raise funds for multiple "real" amp purchases than it is to change preconceived ideas.
 
As others have said, use the effects return jack. I would assume it is a stereo return so you will get the best result by using a TRS Y cable from output 1 to the effects return. Some quick dial in of the FX inputs and outputs should give you a satisfactory result. Best of luck to you brother.
 
jlynnb1 said:
yeah, perfect world the Ax8 is the best solution, but dealing so many moving parts and players it would be impossible to keep presets and stuff sorted...definitely wouldn't be sending them home with 7-10 different guys on a weekly basis...i mean how would that even work? lol

i'm going to use the amps because i'm the guitar lead over all of our guitarists and i can't ask them to do something i'm not willing to do myself....don't think it would send a good message for me to tell all of them they have to use backline and then make an exception for my rig...not matter how well suited it is for the given application.

plus it's always fun to plug into a matchless, lol. i'm sure the Axe will do great...i probably won't run 4cm so it will take some experimenting but it will be fun.
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I don't see it as an exception because you already use your Axe and will continue to use it. Imo you are complying by not being your CLR as a back line and just sticking to iem
 
craiguitar said:
Couple of things seem alien to me reading this thread. Firstly anyone playing an electric guitar in a church. Athough I did know a guy who played a gig in a church once with his Pink Floyd tribute band (also accompanied by some strings). Seems like a nice idea in theory, but by all accounts it was horrendous. Unless you like cavernous reverb. I suppose US churches are more modern buildings with electricity and heating etc. Secondly, the venue having enough money to splash out on some posh amps for the performers to use. I can't speak for all UK churches as a non-religious type, but I've been in a church or two for various events, and I'm sure you have to bring your own candle so you can see where you're planning to sit and slowly freeze to death. And there certainly won't be any entertainment.
I'd say, let them get the Matchless amps, you could take your axe with a couple of presets set up for 4CM, Cab sims off, I'd think that would work a treat.
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True story... About 20+ years ago I was a teenager in a metal band. We were either between bassists and rhythm guitarists or hand't found one yet, so at the time it was just me and a drummer. The drummer's mom was friends with the "hip, cool" pastor of her church, and he invited us to play a couple of songs during Sunday service. It was a pretty traditional church, mostly old people. We played For Whom the Bell Tolls and Creeping Death with just guitar and drums, no vocals, while the old people sat there looking terrified. It was pretty awesome!
 
Using Axe FX as an effects unit feels like, well, using one of the best effects processors for effects. Most Fractal artists use it this way.

FX8 isn't better, just more convenient.
 
vangrieg said:
Using Axe FX as an effects unit feels like, well, using one of the best effects processors for effects. Most Fractal artists use it this way.

FX8 isn't better, just more convenient.
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well i didn't really mean to imply better, just more suited
 
jlynnb1 said:
well i didn't really mean to imply better, just more suited
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Easier to carry, cheaper, doesn't need a separate controller. That's about it.

I guess you already have a controller and paid for your equipment, so it's just #1 for you.
 
vangrieg said:
Easier to carry, cheaper, doesn't need a separate controller. That's about it.

I guess you already have a controller and paid for your equipment, so it's just #1 for you.
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optimized for 4cm, intended specifically for use with an amp, as stated all in one instead of the need for a rack and a controller.
 
I guess if you do take an axe-Fx with the intention to plug it into house backline, using 4CM, you would need that amp to be single channel, or if it is multi channel, you'd still need to use the amp's generic switcher to go from say clean to rhythm. To me that's a bit of a drag....
 
Please keep this thread on topic. Though the venue is a church, please keep discussion about religion itself out of this thread.
 
I'm going to suggest our church retires the old 19th Century pipe organ and let Mrs F (the organist) blow her hat off with a Hammond B5 and Leslie speaker .... the kit and Mesas can be introduced a bit later.
 
I think you need to just try it using it in the different configurations and see which works best. I bet all three methods could produce good workable tones. I know the FX-8 is more optimized for a 4cm setup but the axe-fx certainly isn't garbage used in that scenario.

Try it in the straight in the front, 4cm, and just using the matchless power amp. In the last case you'll probably want to try both with and without poweramp and cab sims on. If you are just using drives and effects like delay and reverb then go in to the front end and see if that works. Try it alone to see what method works best for you, then try it in practice and see if it still works, and finally use it in battle.

4CM would give you the best flexibility but if your setlist only needs 3-5 sounds and they are all simple and mostly cleanish, then you could probably get away with straight in the front. You would need to be careful to match the Ax-FX output volume between in and bypassed to make sure you aren't adding extra grit on your clean stuff. Once you have it matched just put a silver sharpie dot on the front so you know where to set it before you go and add the volume set to the pre-show checklist.
 
Lots of needless drama over a simple question. We are all adults here...amazing what brings it out of people.

Anyway, it really was a simple question as I been a fractal user for years and staple in this community but have never ran the unit into the front of an amp. Was just looking for feedback from those that had done so...not trying to stir up people who have biases or misconceptions about my beliefs.

I'll report back with how it works out for me in that setup.
 
I feel in my water that the Axe-FX is better suited for being for 4CM, or the FX loop (as in FX only) or just FX return. The last digital device I tried putting in front of an amp was a very long time ago. It was a Boss DD2 ..... and 30 seconds later it was transferred permanently to the FX loop.
 
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