MIDI, the Axe-Fx III and the upcoming FCs

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Apologies if addressed before and I've gone through both manuals (FC and Axe) as well all 12 hours of the absolutely superb @ccroyalsenders Axe FX course.

A little background. Like a number on the forum, I've used Bandhelper to change presets on the Axe. In the Axe II days, I would connect a MIDI cable (or USB) to the Axe FX II from the iPad and when presets changed, the MFC would be updated automatically.

With the Axe III and the MFC, I think I had to reverse this (it has worked successfully) and I connected the iPad to the MFC Midi IN and the MIDI Out of the MFC to the Axe III Midi In. This would change presets on the MFC and the AXE III and with the use of MFC Edit, all my effect states would be set as well. However, I did have issues trying to trigger other MIDI devices (Voice Live) with this setup but I worked around it in my studio set up.

So now comes the FC's and this raises a few questions for me (and perhaps others)

- I assume with the Axe and FC's , I will be back to Bandhelper sending messages to the Axe which will automatically update the FC's. This is awesome if so and as I've read puts all the intelligence in the Axe.

- I've also read from the FC manual that "Don’t be mistaken and expect MIDI messages at the MIDI THRU port of the III; all MIDI messages are generated by the Axe-Fx III at its MIDI OUT port". Does this mean for messages triggered by the FC? If so, what does the MIDI Out send that is different than the MIDI Thru? And does USB MIDI send Out, Thru or Both?)

- Do both MIDI (USB and 5 PIN) operate at the same time or if you select USB over Midi does that take precedence and disable the 5 PIN. I want to take advantage of the MIDI USB speed but am not sure if I will need the Out or Thru functionality of the 5 PIN?

- What I'm thinking will be my optimal setup is

IPAD MIDI OUT to AXE MIDI IN
IPAD MIDI IN to AXE MIDI OUT
FC to AXE via FASLINK

If I understand correctly, this will enable all FC functionality, Preset changes via bandhelper and with the added functionality of the AXE III the ability to send PC and CC changes to other devices via the MIDI OUT port and IPAD.

Does that make sense?

Perhaps others will have similar questions so throwing this out there for the experts.

Happy Holidays all and thanks to this community as it makes the best product on the market that much better.

MM
 
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, what does the MIDI Out send that is different than the MIDI Thru?

MIDI Thru only sends out what comes to MIDI In.

MIDI Out will send a) stuff from Scene MIDI block - things you program to be sent on scene change; b) Control Switch MIDI - messages you can program to be sent when a switch is pressed on FC. But in your setup, it will be sent to your iPad only.
 
MIDI Thru only sends out what comes to MIDI In.

MIDI Out will send a) stuff from Scene MIDI block - things you program to be sent on scene change; b) Control Switch MIDI - messages you can program to be sent when a switch is pressed on FC. But in your setup, it will be sent to your iPad only.

Thanks for the quick response. Cool as my iPAD set up also includes wireless midi devices (which bandhelper can take and send to the other units) so I think I'm covered there. I just thought that was too much information. So, I think based on this I would use MIDI Out vs Thru especially if Bandhelper can send the PCs to the other devices without going through the Axe.

Most helpful as it relates to that Q and added the following question to the OP

And does USB MIDI send Out, Thru or Both?)
 
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You can run FASLINK (FC) and MIDI at the same time. So yes, you can connect the iPad to the III using the MIDI ports, using PCs for communication.
 
Why does midi need to come back into BandHelper? I'm doing similar to what you are with the AXEIII and MFC but via a Yamaha bluetooth adapter. I just use BandHelper to select presets programed per song. Are you making changes to VoiceLive and if so how is that connected in this setup?
 
I just thought that was too much information.
The basic message of that blurb is that there’s no internal MIDI merging going on. Out is out, and through is through. If you want to see the MIDI messages that the Axe III is sending, use MIDI Out.
 
Why does midi need to come back into BandHelper? I'm doing similar to what you are with the AXEIII and MFC but via a Yamaha bluetooth adapter. I just use BandHelper to select presets programed per song. Are you making changes to VoiceLive and if so how is that connected in this setup?

With the MFC and Axe II, I connected an external momentary switch and set it to a separate channel to turn the harmony on and off. I'm sure I can figure out how to do that with the FC's and the new MIDI block or in setting up a similar external switch. We'll see

As to your main question, I've used Bandhelper to change presets of all devices, including the GR55 Synth and I've found that the wireless units work well for that. The wireless units connect to the Midi In and Out for Power so it got me thinking of being able to wirelessly change other things on the GR55 using the FC.

So connecting MIDI Out of Axe to Bandhelper in may enable those settings to be passed through using Bandhelper to the GR55 if that makes sense.

MM
 
The basic message of that blurb is that there’s no internal MIDI merging going on. Out is out, and through is through. If you want to see the MIDI messages that the Axe III is sending, use MIDI Out.

MIDI Out will be the way to go. Thanks!!!

MM
 
I am trying to configure hardware (AX8) to app (Bandhelper) integration and I cannot seem to get the app to sync to changes i make on the AX8 (changing preset on AX8 making the proper song come up in the setlist perform mode).
I have read the band helper manual and have followed the guide on that site.
I have set up AX8 to send PC change on scene change (select page key four times on AX8 unit, select midi, set PC value to something as opposed to OFF.
I am connected over BT to the bandhelper app with UD-BT01 device.
Has anyone got this working on AX8 that you know of?
 
I am trying to configure hardware (AX8) to app (Bandhelper) integration and I cannot seem to get the app to sync to changes i make on the AX8 (changing preset on AX8 making the proper song come up in the setlist perform mode).
I have read the band helper manual and have followed the guide on that site.
I have set up AX8 to send PC change on scene change (select page key four times on AX8 unit, select midi, set PC value to something as opposed to OFF.
I am connected over BT to the bandhelper app with UD-BT01 device.
Has anyone got this working on AX8 that you know of?

I think most typically would do this in reverse. Select a song on Bandhelper which would send the program changes to the AX8. I've used that quite successfully at gigs but have never tried the other way.

MM
 
Yes. I’ve got that direction working perfectly! And now want it to sync the other way is I change preset from AX8.
 
To have BandHelper respond to Program Changes, coming from AX8, you have to enter the correct MIDI information in each Song.

To have BandHelper send Program Changes to the AX8, you have to enter the correct MIDI information in a MIDI preset for each song and attach those MIDI preset to the Songs.
 
Thanks yek. I have it working to change from app to AX8.
And I have configured midi info in song to respond to a change from the AX8 but it isn’t responding to the incoming for some reason. I am using the same PC info that works in the outgoing Config for the midi preset in BH.
 
. I am using the same PC info that works in the outgoing Config for the midi preset in BH.

Experiment by using LSB field instead of MSB field, or vice versa, or by adding or subtracting “1” to/from the value in that field.
 
I might be missing something dumb. Do AX8 Program Changes/Scene change messages get sent out the USB Midi feature or only the actual 5 pin MIDI ports? I am using a UD-BT01 connected to the USB port. This works for BandHelper sending MIDI PC messages to the AX8, but the software vendor says from the logs I am sending him that those are SYSEX MIDI coming out of the AX8 towards bandhelper and not MIDI PC messages.

So do I need the MD-BT01 as well hooked up to the actual 5 Pin MIDI ports?

I am running bandhelper on iOS using the UD-BT01 for wireless Bluetooth and it connects to the USB port on the back of AX8.
 
MD-BT01 gets its power from the midi out port of the device it's hooked to. AX8 does not have power at the midi out port to power the MD model that's why you have to use the UD model that has the extra power adapter for use with AX8. AX8 only send midi PC changes not CC so says the wiki, see link below. You would need a midi solutions midi merger and the separate power adapter they sell to split midi out to your other devices to be controlled and back to BandHelper. You could use the Yamaha MD model with the midimerger plus the power adapter. I know the merger passes power from the power in to the outputs as I just checked mine.
This is in theory as I don't have everything to test this.

http://midisolutions.com/products.htm
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=MIDI#AX8
 
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