Midi pedal Comparison MFC-101 MKIII vs gordius big little giant vs Rjm mastermind GT

Which Footboard is the best for the money with my needs in mind

  • MFC-101 MKIII

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • Gordius Big Litle Giant

    Votes: 2 25.0%
  • RJM Midi Mastermind GT/22 or 16

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8
I Have been using the FCB1010 with uno I got for $90 and it has been nothing but hell for me and my band. Programming it manually is abominable. Using uno editing software has been nothing but glitches. While I am able to get by with it, a major concern is that my band is not adept at midi as I am and it is destroying our songwriting, performance and sound creation workflow to have that or no midi controller at all since it might as well be chinese to them. It wouldn't be a big issue except for the fact in this band I'm THE DRUMMER! We play psychedelic technical death metal. Lots of high gain magic but also we use alot of ambient soundscape type stuff and switch around between drastically different sounds withing songs and within our band as a whole.

Our guitarist had been using a pod hd500 before I got axe fxII for myself and our band for studio and particularly live applications. We tried using the pod as a midi controller and it has also been less than satisfactory and even though I don't know the pod I'm the only one with any idea of how to use its midi capabilities to harness the so many of the things that make the axe fx great. We write songs together but our guitarist is very creative when it comes to shaping cool tones. However with the axe so far this has been hindered by not having a proper midi foot board obviously. I make presets and Ideas for him as well but like I said the lack of midi control live, and in rehearsal/writing is destroying his workflow and really making it hard for his awesome creativity to come through with the AXE. An especially sad fact considering I haven't heard too many people get more out of their pod than him.


So very soon I am looking to buy a high end midi foot board. A few things i'm considering in making a decision are price, flexibility, intuitive ease of use(particularly for my band) and availability. we would like to be able to group presets by songs and sets and then use scenes within these to switch between bypass states of effects in our presets etc... vs having certain buttons dedicated to switching on and off particular blocks due to the fact that we use diverse arrangements of blocks and the fact that to do some of the stuff we do it seems having one button dedicated soley to say bypass reverb and one to bypass peq among all the other crazy configurations we have could lead to some difficult tap dancing, particularly live when we are playing at 300bpm and beyond.


Availability was a large issue until I found out the mfc-101 mkIII is now in stock. I talked to gordius last week about getting one of their big little giants and they are moving and indefinitely on hiatus for fulfilling orders. Not to mention when considering the options with my band the gordius may be a little to complex for their creative workflow which is very important.

The last option i've been looking into is the RJM GT/22 Mastermind. It looks amazing and fairly intuitive to use as well but the price is quite up there. The one thing I like about that is it seems very flexible controlling things outside of axe fx, the displays make navigating the footboard easier and it offers fairly easy programming from the pedal itself as well as software editor. I could see myself using this to control all other sorts of midi devices including live performances of electronic music quite easily and it seems to be up to any future challenges something like axe-fx III or some other type device might offer years down the road.... But the price. And i'm not sure about the simplicity factor for my guitarist who would much rather be creative and make music(i can't blame him) than worry about programming midi.

That said do you think the best bet is to go for the mfc-mkIII in terms of easy integration with fractal axe fx II and intuitive workflow for my band and others who also use my axe fx? Or is there something that would make the GT/22 worth the extra 1k. Something down the road or something it does better with axe fx?

Any experience and opinions would be appreciated. I'm leaning toward ordering the MFC within the next few days, maybe even today before it goes out of stock knowing its a solid product with great integrability, solid work flow and I'm sure its no slouch in midi applications beyond simply working with Axe-Fx.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!


One more question. I know the gordius little giant can be used to control and make slave the fcb1010, does it have a similar capability with the mfc?
 
Unless you are burning for LCDs or trying some insane configuration with other units the MFC is pretty much plug and play... Night and day difference from FCB, you won't regret it. Our other guitarist just made that same jump.
 
Liquid Foot

Please elaborate if you can. Why would you recommend liquid foot? What key features does it have. Why do you prefer it? I haven't looked into liquid foot much but would probably want to go with the pro and go all out if I got one. How easy is it to map with axe-fx? Does it come with its own software? Is it easy for a midi noob like my guitarist to use without disrupting hi creative process by hijacking his mind and making him think about midi mapping and cc's pc's etc?

I'm very interested to hear.
 
I recently upgraded to a MFC from a FCB1010. I have the EurekaPROM in my FCB, which is far more user friendly than the uno for those who are newer to midi. The MFC is very well thought out and built like a tank. I love the looks of the RJM controllers, but I can't justify the extra scratch. I think the MFC will serve well. And the wait was only a couple weeks...
 
You have a quite weird situation! Usually....it is the guitar player that has the axe fx and programs it also. You may want to let HIM decide on what he likes to use! Weather it is a marshall stack or axe fx II....I think the important thing is that HE is comfortable with the gear he has on hand and not forced to use equipment he may not be comfortable with using.

That being said...I got sick of trying to order a MFC 101 Mark III on the Fractal site always waiting for them to update the stupid site and got a mint condition MFC 101 Mark II for way less off of ebay.

I figure if I absolutely need the extra features of the Mark III like the XLR option or the quiet footswitches, I can always sell my mark II later on and get one when the stupid thing is IN STOCK! You can even pick up a MFC 101 Mark I that uses only a CAT 5 cable for even less than a mark II on ebay. ALL THREE are exactly the same in terms of software and features....the only thing separating the three, is the the way each hooks up to an axe fx unit. Well with the mark III it also has quieter foot switches as well.

But yes, if you are going to control mainly the axe fx II, then the MFC 101 is designed for that and that is what you should get. It will make things a ton easier and you can go here if you have questions as to how to program it for your band.
 
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You have a quite weird situation! Usually....it is the guitar player that has the axe fx and programs it also. You may want to let HIM decide on what he likes to use! Weather it is a marshall stack or axe fx II....I think the important thing is that HE is comfortable with the gear he has on hand and not forced to use equipment he may not be comfortable with using.

That being said...I got sick of trying to order a MFC 101 Mark III on the Fractal site always waiting for them to update the stupid site and got a mint condition MFC 101 Mark II for way less off of ebay.

I figure if I absolutely need the extra features of the Mark III like the XLR option or the quiet footswitches, I can always sell my mark II later on and get one when the stupid thing is IN STOCK! You can even pick up a MFC 101 Mark I that uses only a CAT 5 cable for even less than a mark II on ebay.

But yes, if you are going to control mainly the axe fx II, then the MFC 101 is designed for that and that is what you should get. It will make things a ton easier and you can go to the MFC forum on this site if you have questions as to how to program it for your band.

I totally agree. The thing is he loves the axe-fx. He was using a pod hd500 for years. Before that he had a madison amp. He loves modeling preamps and between the axe and the pod there is a HUGE difference is quality. He really likes playing out of the axe. It's just we're in a pinch without a good midi controller because of how we operate. That's why I'm trying to find the best fit for him in terms of midi controller. He already recorded a demo with our axe and compared to the scratch tracks he was sending me with the pod its night and day. He's thrilled with all he can do in axe, it's just implementing it on stage or practicing a diverse range of songs has been somewhat difficult. To make sure he felt comfortable with the idea of axe I talked to him before I got it because Although I Have fallen in love with my fractal, since I mostly drum in bands right now I wouldn't have gotten it if I didn't think we were all interested and could all benefit from it. It moves around between our homes and practice room so that he has ample time to mess with it and dial in the sounds HE WANTS and he's getting quite good. it was a little overwhelming for both of us in the first month or two and he hasn't quite dived as far through the rabbit hole as I have but as far as I know to him as to me it's the ultimate amp. I mean it's like what he was doing with pod but so much more dynamic, not noisy and overall produces so much more musically valuable sounds than the pod I don't think thats an issue. Just since he uses it most intensively live I want a solution that is comfortable to him. He's a whiz at doing all sorts of cool stuff live with the pod so Imagine something like the MFC would be something he could use very naturally and effectively since he wouldn't have to be thinking about programming it in the same way as say an fcb1000. Quite frankly I have a lot of history working with midi gear and using that can kind of take the fun out of making music...
 
Get a used Gordius Little Giant and set it up yourself to be simple enough for the guitarist to use. The difference between it and everything else is it has very few limits and is extremely flexible.

Some fear the complexity will make it hard to use live. The opposite is true. The complexity lets you do very powerful things and yet dumb-down operation to where it's actually easier to use at a gig.

A few ideas for your application:
- Build up your songs and set lists in the gordius app (see below)
- Check the box to sync songs to banks - Each bank/switches is dedicated to a single song
- Decide how you want to organize presets
- Decide how you want to organize scenes within presets

Suggestions:
- think efficiency: within one "ambient" preset you can have several ambient presets by using scenes
- Same goes for rhythm/lead. A lot can be done with scenes and x/y within a given preset
- Decide # of sound "changes" within each song and design those sounds within as few presets as possible using scenes.
- Organize those sound changes conceptually, left to right, on the two rows of switches on the Gordius

EXAMPLE OF SIMPLE LIVE SETUP: NAMING GORDIUS PATCHES
- Depending on complexity, you can just use Gordius "patches" to do everything
- Name each gordius patch the name of the song
- Put a number next to the patch - that's when that particular sound occurs in the song. ex: Rockbabe1, Rockbabe2, Rockbabe3, Rockbabe4etc.
- Are the axe-fx preset# and scene# for rockbabe4 the same as rockbabe2? Who cares…you won't run out of memory in the LG, and it's easier for the guitarist to remember rockbabe4 is the 4th sound in the song.

MAPPING PROGRAMING PATCHES
- Edit "rockbabe1" to enter command to send. If axe-fx preset 22 scene 1, enter program change#22
- Assign "rockbabe1" as the default preset for the "rock babe" song…when the guitarist goes to the song, the Gordius auto-launches that preset.
- In Gordius Bank (song per bank) assign the Gordius patch "rockbabe1" to a switch farthest to the left for that song
- Assign "rockbabe2" to next switch to the right
- Edit rockbabe2 to enter commands to send
- Repeat for other sounds in that song
- Repeat above for every song

Problem - what if rockbabe2 is axe-fx preset 18 scene 3?
- no problem: enter PC18 followed by CC for scene 3. The Gordius can do long streams of commands

Problem - what if you want to temporarily change blocks in a scene in an axe-fx preset without effecting the saved scene in the axe-fx preset
- Create a gordius patch, edit to enter commands, enter PC#, scene CC# followed by a string of CC# for the blocks you want to turn on/off
- This is also a way to have MORE scenes if you exceed 8 scenes within a preset

Problem - what if you need momentary functions (spinning up/down a leslie) or stombox functions or trigger functions?
- All of those mean more tap-dancing, but the Gordius can do them, and there's more options: long press, short press, send on release, conditional logic, macros, etc etc.

Problem - how does guitar player remember which switch does what?
- If the sequential/time assignment isn't simple enough, the LG will also temporarily display the name for that switch when pressed
- you can also flash LEDs as part of the commands in a switch
- if that isn't enough, you can put a custom message on the screen in as big a font as you want
- I have a dangerous switch deep inside a looping bank. I need to know undeniable that I've pressed that switch and to be careful. So I set that switch to flash 4 LEDs and put giant exclamation points on the Gordius screen.

Whatever problems you throw at the Gordius, it has a solution, and you can dumb it down for live performance while still doing powerful stuff. IMO, it's better at this, has more solutions and is more flexible than other midi footswitches.

I do the dumbed-down-complexity thing myself. I'm sending to the axe-fx, telling a DAW what backing track to select (CC down USB), telling a mixing board where to move the sliders (midi pitch wheel commands down USB) and more. But all I'm doing live on the Gordius is entering a 3-digit number using the switches, and I'm done until the next song…now that's dumbed down.

13172881835_e491c244cc.jpg


13172993543_2585b7e3fb.jpg
 
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Get a used Gordius Little Giant and set it up yourself to be simple enough for the guitarist to use. The difference between it and everything else is it has very few limits and is extremely flexible.

Some fear the complexity will make it hard to use live. The opposite is true. The complexity lets you do very powerful things and yet dumb-down operation to where it's actually easier to use at a gig.

A few ideas for your application:
- Build up your songs and set lists in the gordius app (see below)
- Decide how you want to organize presets
- Decide how you want to organize scenes within presets

Suggestions:
- think efficiency: within one "ambient" preset you can have several ambient presets by using scenes
- Same goes for rhythm/lead. A lot can be done with scenes and x/y within a given preset
- Decide # of sound "changes" within each song and design those sounds within as few presets as possible using scenes.
- Organize those sound changes conceptually, left to right, on the two rows of switches on the Gordius

EXAMPLE OF SIMPLE LIVE SETUP: NAMING GORDIUS PATCHES
- Depending on complexity, you can just use Gordius "patches" to do everything
- Name each gordius patch the name of the song
- Put a number next to the patch - that's when that particular sound occurs in the song. ex: Rockbabe1, Rockbabe2, Rockbabe3, Rockbabe4etc.
- Are the axe-fx preset# and scene# for rockbabe4 the same as rockbabe2? Who cares…you won't run out of memory in the LG, and it's easier for the guitarist to remember rockbabe4 is the 4th sound in the song.

MAPPING PROGRAMING PATCHES
- Assign "rockbabe1" as the default preset for the "rock babe" song…when the guitarist goes to the song, the Gordius auto-launches that preset.
- Assign the Gordius patch "rockbabe1" to a switch farthest to the left
- Edit "rockbabe1" to enter command to send. If axe-fx preset 22 scene 1, enter program change#22
- Assign "rockbabe2" to next switch to the right
- Edit rockbabe2 to enter commands to send
- Repeat for other sounds in that song

Problem - what if rockbabe2 is axe-fx preset 18 scene 3?
- no problem: enter PC18 followed by CC for scene 3. The Gordius can do long streams of commands

Problem - what if you want to temporarily change blocks in a scene in an axe-fx preset without effecting the saved scene in the axe-fx preset
- Create a gordius patch, edit to enter commands, enter PC#, scene CC# followed by a string of CC# for the blocks you want to turn on/off
- This is also a way to have MORE scenes if you exceed 8 scenes within a preset

Problem - how does guitar player remember which switch does what?
- If the sequential/time assignment isn't simple enough, the LG will also temporarily display the name for that switch when pressed
- you can also flash LEDs as part of the commands in a switch
- if that isn't enough, you can put a custom message on the screen in as big a font as you want
- I have a dangerous switch deep inside a looping bank. I need to know undeniable that I've pressed that switch and to be careful. So I set that switch to flash 4 LEDs and put giant exclamation points on the Gordius screen.

Whatever problems you throw at the Gordius, it has a solution, and you can dumb it down for live performance while still doing powerful stuff. IMO, it's better at this, has more solutions and is more flexible than other midi footswitches.

I do the dumbed-down-complexity thing myself. I'm sending to the axe-fx, telling a DAW what backing track to select (CC down USB), telling a mixing board where to move the sliders (midi pitch wheel commands down USB) and more. But all I'm doing live on the Gordius is entering a 3-digit number using the switches, and I'm done until the next song…now that's dumbed down.

13172881835_e491c244cc.jpg


13172993543_2585b7e3fb.jpg



This was initially a no brainer for me especially when mfc was backordered and people were selling the mk 1 for $1200 on ebay. But after several weeks i've been unbable to really find any used and who the hell knows when they will start making them again.
 
This was initially a no brainer for me especially when mfc was backordered and people were selling the mk 1 for $1200 on ebay. But after several weeks i've been unbable to really find any used and who the hell knows when they will start making them again.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/sale/81621-fs-gordius-little-giant-2-a.html

There were two on sale here, there's at least one for sale on the Gordius forum, and I believe I've seen them on hugeracksinc.com and gear page.

I have two - bought the first used for $600 and bought another last fall for backup, mint/unused for $500. People buy it, expect plug&play and then sell. Then it sells for a great price because no one knows what it is. Great for us, bad for Gordius.
 
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I had my hands on a RG-16 a few weeks ago very impressive controller and I love the software editor. I am a fan of the controller I cant deny that! Easy to program from the face of the unit and of coarse eaiser with the editor. Even right down to the button spaceing, everything just appealed to me.

Would I trade up? No.
I myself use a MFC-101, using it with the Axe Fx II is all I need, getting a RG-16 or 22 would not give me any advantags over what I already have. Funny part I could have used the RG-16 fifteen years ago would have made life much easier. My rig then was fairly complexed.

John
 
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