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Midi control of basic amp settings

jdosher

Inspired
Yeah, I know that while you are in an edit menu, the quick knobs are available immediately to the left or right of the parameter you're cursor is on. However, I "thought" you can go into a parameter and assign a control knob A,B,C,D to the parameter, just like you would attach any other controller (external, ADSR, envelope, etc.). I'm not in front of my AXE, so I might be off-base here. I've also never tried it, so I can't personally comment.

I also use a midi-control knob and assign it to things like Input gain so I can change gain levels on the fly. It's pretty cool, and it would be very cool to have like 6 of those set up on my controller, so I can reach down and adjust up to 6 parameter on the fly.

The only problem when assigning these is when you select a new patch, you cannot save any of these parameter at a certain value, since it will query the controller value and the parameter will adjust to that value. At least that's how mine works... maybe this can be ignored through a setting?
I'd have to verify this, but I seem to recall that the quick-control assignments only work when you're on the quick-control tab. By that I mean, if you assign A to some parameter, you have to recall the quick-control tab to use it.

I have an M-audio Axiom keyboard/midi controller and I've been meaning to see how the Axe works if I use the Axiom's control knobs (which send CC) to control things on the Axe. Are you saying that when you change patches the values stored in the patch are what you hear, or that the value in/on your midi control knob are what you hear? (If that makes sense.)

For me, I'd want knobs that acted just like old-school, static, fixed knobs. For certain things, I want to be able to tweak them on-the-fly and have them stay that way across all patches, all gig long. Others might not want that, but certain things I want fixed, static control over. Mostly Amp1(clean) and Amp2(dirty) level, maybe amp1 and amp2 bass/mid/treble.
 

jdosher

Inspired
Thats pretty cool, but for me, I'd also like physical hardware :p, if there would be a list of set sys-ex messages that FAS could publish, this kind of controller would be easy to create. I don't think there would be a large market for it, unless it would be like Livid instruments - a user designed controller from a set of templates.

This all comes down to FAS and whether they want to give user the sys-ex control ability, as we already have midi control. If the complete Sys-ex message table was available, then it would be easy to implement (keep in mind, each block's controls must have unique address etc).

Again, I would totally be down for a customizable controller with physical knobs and faders (aka axe-edit in hardware form), as I find it easier to tinker with knobs haha.
Yeah, Axe-edit in hardware form is a good way to describe it. In fact, I envision something that can easily be customized to any device, so it wouldn't be Axe-specific. What would be most useful is an app for configuring the hardware which will record the sys-ex message sent by moving a certain control in Axe-edit, then program the desired knob with that sys-ex assignment. Like a programmable TV remote. Most companies publish their sys-ex commands as well, and sys-ex still follows a certain protocol.
 

UnsungHeroGuitars

Fractal Fanatic
I have a Controller Keyboard on my desk that has customisable knobs and sliders etc. I could certainly set that up with help of an Editor and the Sysex table to carry out this stuff... but naturally that's not rackable or a live option

It could be a nice alternative however should a Live Preset tweaking session be in order at some point in the future (which it could well be given an imminent FW14 and further UltraRes exploration etc). It will probably take longer to set all the assignments and associated controls up than flicking through menus / using Axe Edit in the usual way, but once done, its might be easier... and touch more tactile too of course
 

Evz

Inspired
Yeah, Axe-edit in hardware form is a good way to describe it. In fact, I envision something that can easily be customized to any device, so it wouldn't be Axe-specific. What would be most useful is an app for configuring the hardware which will record the sys-ex message sent by moving a certain control in Axe-edit, then program the desired knob with that sys-ex assignment. Like a programmable TV remote. Most companies publish their sys-ex commands as well, and sys-ex still follows a certain protocol.
see my edit:

MIDI SysEx - Axe-Fx II Wiki

those are the communication protocols for AFX2, the only thing missing is the parameter ID's for all effect ID's. The only way I see you can determine them, or make a list of them is the following:
1) connect your axe to your computer with midi 2 usb cable
2) run midi message viewer on the computer
3) open an empty present, and place any effect on the grid
4) modify each parameter in the effect block, and decode the sysex based on the "Parameter_receive" function from the wiki
5) transcribe all parameters for all effect blocks, and post on wiki for rest of us mortals to us ;)

once you have the transcription, you can make your own physical controller to do what you want, I was thinking of something like a panel control with on main display and navigation arrows that select the available blocks in the current preset, and 5 or 6 encoders with a display above each reading out what parameters they modify: example, select amp block in the main window (this is starting to sound a lot like the AFX editing window HAHA!), then the lcd's above the knobs will display the preset parameters you chose for them to modify, and the current AFX value.

You could also add a "save" button (I think), otherwise, all changes will not be saved from my understanding.
 

shasha

Fractal Fanatic
PALYGAP is the only person who I know really went far on this and was working on a hardware solution. Do a search for some of his posts to get an idea of where he got.

I started with the Ultra and a BCF2000 and realized after a while that it wasn't practical or elegant. It becomes a massive undertaking depending on what you want to do. But the biggest thing is that the AxeFXII has encoders on the front panel which kind of killed the advantage to me. I programmed my X and Y buttons to open the amp and cab blocks so I'm there with a button press and have 5 encoders right there and can see what I'm doing. As soon as you start going the encoder route it becomes a real mess of trying to match the parameter value that is in the patch and just trying to remember what frickin' knob controls what parameter.

Now the AxeFXII does sync parameter values to AxeEdit so it may be easier than trying to do it with the Ultra. I'm not sure, but I do know that I was never able to get the patch's values to match the encoder until after I started tweaking a knob at which point it would jump to the default level for that encoder.

People love to bag on Behringer, but if you want the ability to program the sysex data properly I don't know of another device that can do it. Perhaps going with an Arduino or Raspberry Pi type of device may work, but you're talking about code that is beyond my capability.
 

nater

Experienced
Are you saying that when you change patches the values stored in the patch are what you hear, or that the value in/on your midi control knob are what you hear? (If that makes sense.)
When you have assigned an external controller to a parameter, you cannot save that parameter to a specific value. Say you have an ext controller assigned to "Input Gain". If you recall a preset, and you want your "input gain" parameter on that scene to recall a specific value like "5.65" or something, you cannot do that. The parameter will automatically be set to wherever your ext. controller is set. So, if your controller is set to 98%, your input gain value will be "9.80".

This may be exactly what you want. I would prefer you could still save the parameter to a certain value, and only if you moved the ext controller would the parameter value change. The Eventide pedals have a feature like this, I forget what it's called, but the value doesn't change (like Delay time) until you move the knob.
 

MNG

Inspired
You could get really fancy, but I don't mind using the front panel or Axe edit for all the effects and more complex stuff as I never edit those on the fly - it's just the basic amp controls that I would like to access with proper amp type knobs. Knobs you can grab and twist and easily see where they were set - it's not just a convenience, it's the basic organic interface with the amp model that we're all so used to.

My Yamaha DG1000 has 7 motorised chicken head knobs that rotate automatically to reflect the settings for different patches. It has midi send and receive and it would be great to use that to control the basic amp settings. Especially if it could automatically change to reflect the settings for each patch on the Axe. It is probably technically possible, but I've seen nothing to suggest what messages need to be sent.
 

jdosher

Inspired
When you have assigned an external controller to a parameter, you cannot save that parameter to a specific value. Say you have an ext controller assigned to "Input Gain". If you recall a preset, and you want your "input gain" parameter on that scene to recall a specific value like "5.65" or something, you cannot do that. The parameter will automatically be set to wherever your ext. controller is set. So, if your controller is set to 98%, your input gain value will be "9.80".

This may be exactly what you want. I would prefer you could still save the parameter to a certain value, and only if you moved the ext controller would the parameter value change. The Eventide pedals have a feature like this, I forget what it's called, but the value doesn't change (like Delay time) until you move the knob.
Understood. Yeah, it's the difference between absolute vs relative (or incremental) control. A lot of midi control surfaces can be set up either way. I'd like absolute (fixed, non changing) control, but I can see how others would like incremental control. This is all good info to gather if I'm going to think about this seriously.
 

jdosher

Inspired
I'll echo what shasha mentioned above - Check out the MidyAx project from forum member PALYGAP. It seems to be what most people here are wanting:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/other...idyax-project-using-bcr2000-pilot-axe-fx.html
That is pretty cool! I wonder about full bi-directional control though, and if it would result in the same issues you get when running the Axe-FX with Axe-edit connected - audio glitches and cutouts. What I'm envisioning is to keep it simple, keep it affordable, and keep it 1U. It wouldn't meet everyone's needs, but it sounds like a lot of people would really appreciated having some good, basic analog-like controls to mimic the interface of a hardware preamp/amp/eq/gain - whatever controls you find yourself wishing you could adjust with a dedicated knob.
 

Krakadon

Inspired
Fractal - It would be so awesome if you made a rack device with a bunch of big knobs to control the Axe-FX along with some templates. I think you can fit 16 Neutrik inputs in-line on a 19" rack device so roughly the same number of knobs, less if you go smaller, but not too small to lose the intention of the product. I would buy that in an instant. I know there is the value knob and the A/B/C/D knobs but I'd like more bigger easier to see knobs with a more traditional amp style set-up. This is complimentary to Axe-Edit and the MFC, just another very convenient fast way to tweak and control the device.
 

jdosher

Inspired
Fractal - It would be so awesome if you made a rack device with a bunch of big knobs to control the Axe-FX along with some templates. I think you can fit 16 Neutrik inputs in-line on a 19" rack device so roughly the same number of knobs, less if you go smaller, but not too small to lose the intention of the product. I would buy that in an instant. I know there is the value knob and the A/B/C/D knobs but I'd like more bigger easier to see knobs with a more traditional amp style set-up. This is complimentary to Axe-Edit and the MFC, just another very convenient fast way to tweak and control the device.
Fractal...or maybe some guy right here in Washington State ;-)
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
You could get really fancy, but I don't mind using the front panel or Axe edit for all the effects and more complex stuff as I never edit those on the fly - it's just the basic amp controls that I would like to access with proper amp type knobs. Knobs you can grab and twist and easily see where they were set - it's not just a convenience, it's the basic organic interface with the amp model that we're all so used to.

My Yamaha DG1000 has 7 motorised chicken head knobs that rotate automatically to reflect the settings for different patches. It has midi send and receive and it would be great to use that to control the basic amp settings. Especially if it could automatically change to reflect the settings for each patch on the Axe. It is probably technically possible, but I've seen nothing to suggest what messages need to be sent.
I've got one of those. It's in the format of a Twin with 2 12" Celestion Gold speakers. I've also thought of butchering it up to use as a controller for the Axe.
 

PALYGAP

Experienced
As mentioned by shasha and CyberFerret, the MidyAX is a hardware solution that aims at using real pots (actually digital encoders) and buttons to adjust/control the AXE-FX parameters. The aim is to make it easier to use the AXE-FX without using a computer or an iPad.

I had a long break from the project but I have been back into it over the last two month.

I am currently programming a new feature in the MidyAX that will allow to have two pages (32 encoders + 8 buttons) of control on the BCR2000 that can control any set of "most important" parameters in the AXE-FX. These 2 pages will be customizable so that one can decide on which ever set of parameters is controlled with the BCR2000.

I will keep posting News of the project in the thread appearing in my signature.

The MidyAX does answer the OP needs but goes beyond. Sorry.:(


PS : I have recently made the code of the project available on an OPEN SOURCE basis and I will soon be making new video demos to show how it works.
 
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