MIDI CC knob controller in stompbox format

philipacamaniac

philipacamaniac

Fractal Fanatic
Does anyone know of a MIDI CC knob controller that can sit on a pedalboard and look roughly like a stompbox? There are tons of knob controllers but they're all desktop-oriented and/or have far more knobs than would be useable with the Axe-Fx/AX8.

Disaster Area used to make something that would perfectly fit the bill but I haven't been able to find a used one - http://www.disasterareaamps.com/shop/dmc-5k-2

I'm basically looking for a 5 or 6 knob stompbox on the floor that can control a dedicated block in each preset.

I'd primarily use it with a delay block (mix, time, feedback, LFO depth, and a combined LPF/HPF knob if those parameters can have modifiers).
 
Admin M@ said:
You could probably use one or more of the MIDI SOLUTIONS boxes to do this, or make a box that connects to one of their rack units. Or look for a RAC12?

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RAC12 isn't quite the idea since I'm looking for something on the floor (next to my AX8 :)). Maybe it could be re-housed.

I have thought about the MIDI Solutions stuff. I'd have to customize, like combining/re-housing several of the pedal-to-CC boxes. Thanks for the suggestions - I'll look into both with more detail.

I'll show off the results if I get anything working.
 
This new controller : https://store.djtechtools.com/products/midi-fighter-twister
maxresdefault.jpg

could answer the "can sit on a pedalboard and look roughly like a stompbox" criteria, though it is a bit big.

Or may be this : http://www.modularsquare.com/Kenton-Killamix-s565.htm
kenton_killamix_b.jpg

but on the expensive side.
 
You could build your own using a Teensy board with midi IO. The Teensy can read up to 20 pots I believe. You could house it all in a Hammond Stompbox style enclosure too. You would need to program the teensy first to send the midi commands you like. Let me know if this interests you, as I have some PCBs for MIDI I/O with power handling, I've been meaning to make a project page about it, but have not yet found the time. I think it would cost you about $100.
 
Evz said:
You could build your own using a Teensy board with midi IO. The Teensy can read up to 20 pots I believe. You could house it all in a Hammond Stompbox style enclosure too. You would need to program the teensy first to send the midi commands you like. Let me know if this interests you, as I have some PCBs for MIDI I/O with power handling, I've been meaning to make a project page about it, but have not yet found the time. I think it would cost you about $100.
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I haven't done any research on Teensy, how is it programmed? I used to be a web developer and I've worked with integrated systems like Crestron before, so no issues there. But I don't want to rely on a PC or Linux box for programming - it would need to have a Mac app or terminal/serial access.

I've also priced out just making a two knob controller and using my two free pedal ports. That would be about $20.

PALYGAP said:
I've actually re-started the MidyAX project that will allow to put a RPi ( a small and inexpensive computer) in between these types of MIDI controllers (and others) and the AXE-FX to control the AXE-FX parameters. The first screenshots of the application are here :
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...to-pilot-the-axe-fx.68598/page-3#post-1327001
So that could do the trick, although it does indeed use a computer.
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How responsive are SysEx commands versus CCs and Controllers? AX8-Edit is not usable "live" and I'm looking for a pedal controller where I can reach down live and make realtime tweaks to motor speed, feedback, etc (like we all used to on our DL4s).
 
Yes, DIY a 2 knob controller would be simplest.

The teensy board uses an M4 processor in the Arduino IDE (https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/) (https://www.arduino.cc/). It is fairly simple to program, and you can program it in both Mac/PC, and upload your sketches. If you want to use SysEx to control the axe, it can be done, though it would take a little bit more coding than simply sending CC messages. On the plus side, Sysex will let you control any parameter you wish.
 
philipacamaniac said:
How responsive are SysEx commands versus CCs and Controllers? AX8-Edit is not usable "live" and I'm looking for a pedal controller where I can reach down live and make realtime tweaks to motor speed, feedback, etc (like we all used to on our DL4s).
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AXE-Edit uses SYSEX commands (so should AX8-edit) so it's pretty "live" or real-time. Same with the MidyAX. Sending CC direct to AXEFX MIDI IN (using DIN connector) without a computer in between might make a difference but then the transmission speed of the message is tied to MIDI "DIN" speed = 31.25 kbit/s.

I havn't actually measured if there is a deference in response time from MIDI CC versus SYSEX. I guess it is pretty similar, the SYSEX messages are just longer but using USB 2 speed (60 Mo/s theoretically) It will not make much of a difference.
 
PALYGAP said:
AXE-Edit uses SYSEX commands (so should AX8-edit) so it's pretty "live" or real-time. Same with the MidyAX. Sending CC direct to AXEFX MIDI IN (using DIN connector) without a computer in between might make a difference but then the transmission speed of the message is tied to MIDI "DIN" speed = 31.25 kbit/s.

I havn't actually measured if there is a deference in response time from MIDI CC versus SYSEX. I guess it is pretty similar, the SYSEX messages are just longer but using USB 2 speed (60 Mo/s theoretically) It will not make much of a difference.
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When adjusting many parameters in Axe-Edit or AX8-Edit, I've noticed the sound will change in "steps" providing a zipper effect. Try this with the Synth or Filter block frequency (for a prominent example). When you adjust those same parameters with MIDI CC, it's smooth as butter. This symptom is completely fine when editing, and that's what the Edit software is for (not to replace external controllers).

It's not so much a latency thing I was thinking, just that the Edit software literally isn't usable in a live band situation for live parameter tweaking/sweeping. I didn't know if that was a symptom of SysEx in general or if it was because the Edit software is doing tons of sync operations in the background. Either way, SysEx vs CC sends a lot more data to sweep a single knob.
 
It looks like there's a difference in "circuit" when using CC --> Ext Ctrl --> Modifier --> AXE-FX Parameter compare to using SYSEX. That circuit using CCs looks like it is made for it being live (and it is). There used to be more glitchs/pops when using SYSEX to control parameter than there are now.
For live situation CC circuit looks best but you will only be able to control parameters that can have a Modifier on it .... but that's quite a loot already.
 
Thanks for the help, guys. For now, I'll just plan on using my Nektar Panorama P4 as a CC controller. I don't usually gig with it (I don't usually play keys) but it needs to see more action on stage. One benefit - I won't have to reach down to the pedalboard. At some point I plan on building a dual knob pedal with dual TRS out, and then eventually expanding it to 6 knobs with a Teensy board driving MIDI CCs, as mentioned above.

I played around with the Panorama today and there really is something special about physical knob controls. Using the Mono Tape delay, I mapped delay time, feedback, mod (LFO1) depth, mod (LFO1) rate, drive, motor speed, and mix. The cool thing is that this allowed me to dial in some very cool sounds that I then saved to Block Library presets (after removing the modifiers).
 
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